Hummm LeeValley screws up and does not make good.

[Mike M]

Most likely they hired an MBA who has been taught to spend $5 to save a nickel and piss everyone off as he has no clue about customer service.

Mike M

[nailshooter41]

Leon... buddy... friend of mine...

Let it go. You are defending yourself needlessly against the fanboy hoard.

You are a small "bidniz" man, so is Karl, so am I. Others are not. We kno w that shit indeed rolls uphill.

If my employee makes mistake on the job, in the eyes of the customer, they hold my company (and me) responsible. They don't say, "no problem Robert t hat you tore down our fence instead of repairing it. We hold your low leve l employee responsible, not you." Nope, they hold me responsible.

If there is an error in customer service, > am responsible, no one el se.

My customers react the exact way I do. If I have proof you screwed up and you immediately admit it and work to fix it (say... expedited shipping on m e, for example) then I can recall that my next perfect day will be my first . No harm, no foul, just get the deal done. I expect the wrong party to f ix their problem. After all, if Leon had screwed up and used a bad credit c ard, given the wrong shipping address, or had provided the wrong customer c ontact info, that would have all been on him, right? So it is a two way st reet. Unless...

If I am met with a surly attitude by some smart ass that is so poorly train ed he intimates I might be lying or just completely wrong, the fun starts f or me. Over the years I have perfected my chainsaw mouth approach to probl em solving and I make the guy that is ruining my day as absolutely unhappy as I can. I gladly speak to supervisor after supervisor, working my way up the ladder.

It is good that Rob Lee contacted you, but that is all after the fact. It is not your fault, nor should it be your burden to bear that their IT idiot s can't get their site lined out as well as hundreds of thousands of others .

And again, I know you well enough to know that if they had made just a bit of effort to placate you, all would have been well.

I give everyone a fair shake and know that I am not remotely close to perfe ct and realize that not all my efforts are 100%. I do not alienate clients for any reason. My employees and sub contractors are not allowed to have bad attitudes. Bad attitudes cost me money and future clients. Folks that have bad days are children and need to man up or stay at home. I run a ti ght ship and expect that of others. I was brought up in the trades that wa y, and it has served me well.

I thought your post was well reasoned, well intended, and devoid of the kin d of nasty attitude that I would have expressed. And for those that are di sappointed in you because you didn't handle this the way THEY think you sho uld, shame on them. They know you here as a constant, valued contributor a nd solid guy. Pathetic they couldn't give you the benefit of a doubt on th is.

Let the guys that buy 10 frickin' door knobs a year or $200 worth of stuff once and a while have this one Leon. There is no resolution when arguing w ith fan boys or folks that see the world only from their eyes.

Robert

[none]

The different reason is that I've never been a client of Leon's and never in person experienced his attention to woodworking detail. My experience with Leon is solely through the woodworking information he's passed on to me. Almost as good, but not just quite.

So there! :)

[none]

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 16:36:33 -0500, Leon

So, it WAS YOUR FAULT!!! If you weren't using a crap browser in the beginning, all this rigmoral wouldn't have happened.

Nice try, but you've been caught Leon!

:)

[none]

But, he did attempt a resolution beforehand. And, upon attempting that resolution he was rebuffed.

It was only on further complaint (and I suspect a good attention from this newsgroup), that brought about what most would consider the correct resolution.

[none]

Why are you being such a bear about this? When making complaints, at what point do you stop? Two tries, three tries, more?

It's not like Leon didn't try, he did and was cut off by a customer service rep with the wrong information on hand. And, how many times after talking with a customer service rep, are you able to go much higher over their head and talk to the CEO of the company?

Leon didn't have Rob Lee's email in the beginning. He got that email by the very fact of airing his grievance in this newsgroup. And, the only reason Rob Lee's email was available is the fact that he frequently contributes in some newgroups. All those conditions aren't very common at all.

Everything that happened was needed to get to the final (proper) resolution.

[none]

Sorry Ed, I might have missed comments from those *others*, but it appears like you're one of the few, if not the only one who perceives it that way.

[Ed Pawlowski]

No, I'm thinking you are a mature and reasoned person that would tell the entire story, not start with the portion that incites people. Some will read to the end, others have already condemned LV as going to crap.

I did not say it was your reason to smear LV, but telling the first part of the story can easily be interpreted that way. It was, from the various replies.

I'm sure that LV appreciates your finding the issue. You did the right thing in the end, but it had a bumpy start.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Leon already knew who to contact. Finding Rob's email is not all that difficult, it was just a simple question easily answered. I just think that airing the first half of the problem cast them in a light that people were already making decisions that LV went to crap, as plainly stated.

He did the right thing in the end, just could have handled the first portion better, IMO.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I heard that Leon has problems getting material from his suppliers. I wonder why. I don't know the whole story, just what I saw here so I'll interpret his problem the way I see it and not get the rest of the facts.

Now, did that piss you off Karl?

No one said it should be tolerated, but there are often better ways to handle such situations.

[none]

Think about what you're saying. Lee Valley has one of the best reputations in the business. This little flap isn't nearly enough tarnish that image. And, anybody who is at all into woodworking know this.

However you feel about the way Leon approached this problem, I prefer view it as just another example of Lee Valley Tools doing that they do best. Problem in the beginning and now it's solved. If anything, it will be just another example of Lee Valley Tools doing what they do best ~ providing customer service. And that, will bring in even more customers.

[Swingman]

LOL ... hell, when you have little or nothing to add to a woodworking discussion, you gotta exercise that gold plated, here's what you should of done, holier than than thou attitude in some fashion.

[Doug Winterburn]

Ackshooly, it could be all the other browsers that are the problem. There are non standard defined html constructs that are tolerated by certain browsers, some brought on intentionally by the "extend and embrace" philosophy of some browser providers.

It would be interesting to know the exact html (or possibly javascript) that caused the issue.

[basilisk]

I'm not much on conspiracies, but it wouldn't surprise me if the feds put google where they are today.

Gmail is a monster, I have my own hosting and email but if you want to communicate with anyone else it winds up at some point passing through gmail more often than not.

basilisk

[Swingman]

In the past I've tried to suss out why chrome always returns a "download.htm" link, resulting in an "about.blank" page in a browser tab, when faced/clicking on the following drop down list "action button" (but I obviously don't have enough information, and certainly not enough javascript coding experience to troubleshoot it successfully):

For USAA SAVINGS, I want to

For USAA SAVINGS, I want to . Click to view options. . Click to view options.

This is a big PITA with Chrome because the above seems to be a method common to many banks and financial institutions.

I'm thinking it is either security related, or perhaps related to an installed extension wacking out the running the desired javascript that would allow the desired result, although disabling all extensions does not seem to make a difference, although some report that works for them?

Sadly, and although I generally like Chrome, I have to load up Internet Exploder when I do any financial browsing.

[Doug Winterburn]

Is it possible that the variant or release level of the JRE on the client side could result in inconsistencies?

[Leon]

FWIW I use Chrome for BofA, Capitol One, Citicards, and the old ING which IIRC is another Capitol One web site. I did have issues with most of these in one way or another in the past but as the institutions have embraced Chrome I find myself not having to use another browser as often. Strangely I can get into my money market accounts site but can see nothing as far as data is concerned.

[dadiOH]

You might like Opera.

One thing I particularly like - other browsers may have the same? - is the fact that I can set it to dump ALL cookies it received when I close it; for those cookies one may wish to retain, it is easy to exempt whatever sites one wishes.

[FrozenNorth]

Opera has switched to the same rendering engine as Chrome. So any problems, will likely be in both browsers.

[Swingman]

Possible, but the java plug-in should be automatically updated in Chrome right? (just double checked, and you have to actually use a command line flag (--allow-outdated-plugins) to keep Chrome from updating); and goodness knows I keep the JRE updated on the box due to the constant and continuing number of exploits ... including running the Java Uninstall Tool after each update.

I'm at a dead loss as to what to do about it. Asked USAA tech web tech support, who seemed to think it is not an issue and can't be bothered; and checked periodically on the G+ forums, where none of the possible solutions have worked for most of those who have taken the time to complain.