See my other post. I misplaced a decimal. Happens sometimes.
side, but for
six thou without
I can discern a difference. But i wouldn't be able to quantitate the two gaps to the level of accuracy required. And neither can you.
I have never needed feeler gauges. They work on a very basic principle and I feel confident making that claim.
------------------------------------------------------------------ You can forget a log fireplace in SoCal.
The South Coast Air Quality District outlawed open log fire burning fire places years ago as an air pollution source problem.
Lew
snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote in news:cfc901eb-e547-4589-a3e9- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
feel confident making that claim.
I hope you'll pardon this small correction: you have never *perceived* the need for feeler gauges.
IMHO you should reevaluate that perception.
snipped-for-privacy@garagewoodworks.com wrote in news:2c3d3ffb-c20b-43fd-bcae-d1b6b820fe51 @googlegroups.com:
six thou without
to the level of accuracy required. And neither can you.
Don't tell me what I can and can't do.
You don't own feeler gauges, so you don't know how small a gap is visible, or how accurately it can be estimated with a little practice.
---------------------------------------------------------------- Many on this list may not be old enough to remember the most useful of all formulas:
"If a Flying Red Horse can't spot the difference from a thousand feet, you're good to go".
Lew
feel confident making that claim.
I bought a micrometer from Doug. When we measure, we don't food around! : )
not going to say why I'm
Doug, Thank you for your support. Brian, Thank you for your indulgence, as I came into this confused about the details of the procedure/algorithm that was being proposed--and I apologize for any fuss that I may have created as a result of that. I think I may need to see a picture with a real dial indicator in it, or a drawing of one, to understand the procedure. There is so sense in me making any further comments, other than the request for clarification I have already made, until I understand the algorithm.
Brian, I know Doug well-enough to know that he has a lot to offer on this problem. If he understands what you are trying to do, than I'm sure that he can help you make it "first-rate" if that's your goal. We're all here to help and support each other, right?
Cheers, Bill
Measure thousands of an inch between two lines. Sure it can be measured. Accurately? No. ============================================================================================== Yes.
And I once caught a fish ------This Big------. I========================================================================== I don't doubt him a bit. I can and I'm not the only one.
As I understand his equations the L is not a variable in any given situation as it is the length of the square. How ever it would be different depending on whether one used the long or short arm of the square.
No one mentioned using the top of their old Craftsman table saw to check the accuracy of their squares. I frequently check my square by laying the square on the table and checking the square using the edge and the miter slot. or a corner of the table. However the slot is more accessible since the saw has wings on the iron top to extend the work surface.
For setup of saw and router table I use an aluminum triangle square. If I drop it so what, while the edge maybe nicked it will not be knocked out of square.
Tools, and the material you are working. Context is a large part of it.
A couple of thousandths over two feet is out of context for woodworking joints. The material is going to move more than that simply due to weather variation.
I'd rather spend a few bucks on a quality square than putz around with a dial indicator.
I'm not going to say why I'm
The procedure really couldn't be any simpler, I can only conclude that you = have not read the procedure carefully enough. Procedure: As shown in Figure 1, position the dial indicator to the left o= f the square and miter gauge so that the stylus makes contact with the squa= re to obtain reference distance d1. Push the square and miter gauge forwar= d to obtain distance d2. If you zeroed the dial indicator at d1 then the D= elta1 is determined directly (See equation 1). Flip the square over and re= peat the same process with the dial indicator on the right side to obtain D= elta2. Delta2 =3D abs(d3-d4). L is the length of the square. Because we rotated the square and miter gau= ge (to make the calculations work) there will be some error introduced into= the equation that is very small. See Reference 2. L actually gets a litt= le smaller because of the rotation. If you have access to CAD, draw an 8" square with an angle of 89.5 degrees = (0.5 degree angle error). Create an isosceles trapezium to simulate the tw= o squares coming together when flipped. =20
Here, let me put back in the part you conveniently left out:
"At the same time, I'm just as guilty as anyone of occasionally settling for less ... mainly due to time, circumstances, the medium (woodworking), and the need to 'git r' done'. "
Notice the mention of "woodworking"?
How does that not set the "context"?
Here, I'll say it again:
You are only as accurate as your tools allow.
not going to say why I'm
I added a new Figure that might help:
measure our square references from our existing furniture. Right? :)
I don't know why google groups double-spaces every one of your posts, but it is annoying.
Starrett is in business to supply precision tools to the metalworking and patternmaking industries, for which a much higher level of precision is required than for building furniture, where "within a 32nd" is usually more than sufficient.
measure our square references from our existing furniture. Right? :)
No. They are in business to sell their products to anyone that wants them. And I while I don't know the percentage, I am willing to bet that a significant percentage comes from woodworkers.
measure our square references from our existing furniture. Right? :)
I left out:
Stop reading my posts.
square using a dial indicator. The method works in theory. I've tried it and it seems to work in practice. A caveat is that the square needs a thick edge to support a stylus.
Brian's points (if not more). If you check out Brian's web site he uses his reference square as much for machine setup as anything else. With some good reference tools, such as that square he is checking, a dial indicator, straight edge and a few other items he has methods that allows him to quickly set up his table saw or whatever with high accuracy. Or to verify that it remains set up properly.
Which is a worthwhile goal.
For that to work it is best if the reference square is within a couple of thousanths along entire the beam.
Can you use the draw and flip method to verify a reference square to that accuracy? I can't think of how.
With a reference square you can also easily verify your other working squares. Which I like to do if I drop one.
Does everybody need to work like Brian does? No, but I suggest there's nothing wrong with it, since overall it saves him time.
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