Garage vs Basement Shop?

[Hedley]

Hi all,

You ever have one of those moments when you wonder how you ever developed the ability to walk and chew bubble-gum at the same time? You know, one of those forehead slapping moments when you think, "What a dumbass I am, why didn't I think of that before?!?!"

I had one of those tonight, and I doubt I'm going to sleep very well whilst coping with the paradigm shift that an innocent comment from (of all people) my visiting mother-in-law catapulted me into. She saw me working on a space-saving mobile bench out in the cold-as-hell third bay of the garage and said "Why don't you have the shop in the basement?" To add insult to injury, her daughter agreed, saying "I've always thought it should be in the basement." Having never even considered this in my new house, my immediate puffed-up-chest response (it's too hard to take sheet stock down there) was immediately suppressed by the total sense that it suddenly seemed to make. I could use just half the unfinished basement for the shop and have about five times the space as the third bay.

I'm just coming to grips with taking the TS3650 apart and toting it down there in less than 100 lb chunks, taking down the conduit and electrical I spent 2 days running to the garage (it's all salvageable), and figuring out what to do with all that BIG SPACE. I've seen pics in ABPW and other places of both garage and basement shops, but I have had neither. I don't really know the pros or cons of either, either.

Can some of you help me out? The basement is not walk-out, but there is a short, straight shot from an external door to the basement door and a straight flight of stairs down to the basement. I figure the stairwell is about 3+ feet wide and there is plenty of headroom. And the basement has 9' ceilings. And it's always about 65-75 degrees.

What are the cons of a basement shop? Aside from toting stuff up and down, I can't think of any.

As always, I am thankful for your cumulative wisdom.

--Hedley

[Leon]

Snip

I think it would be great BUT. Air quality control will have to be addressed and you will not get as much natural lighting.

[JimBrowninPA]

I have a basement shop with a setup much like you're describing. I had to frame in the room (21 x 20 .... coulda shoulda made it bigger). Also had to wire it, but that I did right, more or less ... outlets every 6 ft around the perimeter, 8 outlets for shoplights & whatnot spaced evenly around the ceiling, and a 220 outlet on the support post in the middle of the room.

Dust collection is a must, and I'm working on an air cleaner (when I was working in my garage, I'd just open the doors and fire up the leaf blower once in a while). Noise is occasionally a problem--less so now that the walls are up, and the floor (house floor, shop ceiling) is well-insulated, so that helps a little.

The main problem I have is the absence of a door to the outside. I put a new door from the garage to the stairwell so I have a straight shot down the stairs (essential for plywood or drywall), but dang, I'm dreading carrying my daughter's brand-new computer desk up those stairs. And God help us when/if we move ... those boxes from Grizzly slid down the stairs quite smoothly, but the jointer and table saw are going to be difficult going back up.

I actually contemplated putting in a bulkhead door, but the expense was too great, and the way our house is laid out, it would have involved putting it in a very visible place. I'll make do with the basement stairs for now.

I also wish I had running water in the basement ... I know it wouldn't be hard to do, but drainage would be a problem. I'd like to be able to rinse out brushes and wash my hands without having to traipse through the house. I also intend to run an air line from the garage to the woodshop so that I can quick-connect to the compressor without having to run an air hose down the stairs through an open door.

All of that said, I'm glad to be working inside rather than in the garage ... cool in the summer, tolerable in the winter. Good luck getting your shop set up.

[Michael Latcha]

No doubt, a basement shop makes woodworking easy and comfortable year-round.

If you have forced air heat or A/C, then you will have to carefully and thoroughly filter the air... or you will blow wood dust all over your house, and your mother-in-law's daughter will quickly change her opinion about where your shop should be. If you have hot water or steam heat (like me) and no A/C, this is much less of a problem. If you orient towards the Neander you have another distinct advantage in the basement, since you make chips instead of dust, and you drop those chips instead of throw them around. Normites clean up with vacuums; Neanders clean up with brooms. Either way, make sure you have good abrasive welcome mat at the bottom of the stairs so that you don't track wood dust or chips upstairs. For your own good.

Usually headroom is much lower in the basement, and there is very little natural light. The headroom is dealt with by bringing in workpieces already cut to approximate size, the light with lots of bright fixtures and white walls. Finishing is limited to those few finishes (which happen to prefer anyway) which don't emit huge amounts of VOCs and can easily stink up a two-story colonial... a stink that never, ever clears out before the wife comes home. Noise from power tools can also be a real problem, one that can be dealt with by insulating your basement ceiling and installing good access doors... but mostly by running the tools when the extra noise won't be a problem.

Since you already have the permission to expand and move, think of perhaps of a two-part shop. A rough garage shop that spends most of its time stored away, with sawhorses and big sheets of foam insulation for breaking down sheets of plywood and drywall on the driveway, for running rough stock over the jointer and through the planer, and for heavy sanding and finish spraying.... and a fine basement shop for the remainder of your woodworking. This arrangement has well worked for me for a long time.

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI

[Charley]

There are two significant problems that I can think of about having your shop in your basement. The first one is humidity. When my shop was in my basement I was always fighting with tool rust and excessive moisture in my wood. If your basement is in Arizona or someplace like that then you probably won't need to worry about this. Mine was in NY state. The second problem that you will have to deal with is that everything that you make will have to fit through a 3 ft door and be light enough to get back up the stairway. Of course, if you plan your projects so you can build them in modules and then take them to your garage for the final assembly you can work around this.

I gave up on trying to have a shop in my basement and now have it in a small barn style outbuilding which has an 8 foot door, central heat/air, and is fully insulated. I can work comfortably out there 365 days a year. Oh, another plus for having my shop in a separate building is that I never get sawdust in her (our) house, and she has to call me on the intercom when she wants my attention (hence much less often). I enjoy my shop much more since I made all of these changes to it. It isn't as big as I would like, but are they ever?

[Brian Elfert]

Depending on the configuration of your basement stairs, it might be really hard to get sheet goods in and projects out. My basement stairs has a landing half way down so I can't carry 4x8 anything into the shop. I have to remove the two sections from the egress window to get sheet goods in.

I am building a seperate shop building mostly because of the access issues in the basement. The garage really isn't an option here in Minnesota.

Brian Elfert

[RonB]

Sounds like you have already overcome one possible hurdle - your wife seems supportive. Nevertheless the two of you should plan this one together. As some have pointed out, dust is a very big concern. You will have to pretty much isolate your workshop from any air handling equipment that might be in the basement. You will probably have to seal your workspace from adjoining areas to keep dust at bay. You can do a lot of this with sheetrock and wall frame sealing at floor and ceiling. Needless to say, dust collection will be a must.

I have tried to bridge this with my spouse for consideration in planning our next house. She keeps raising the drawbridge. She is not unreasonable because she has had to endure two pretty major additions - a room addition and a complete basement finish. No matter how much plastic we taped up, we still got dust throughout the house. On the other hand I have seen a couple of pretty successful basement shops that operate as sealed and dust-controlled units. I will note that both of these still rely on the garage for heavier duty finishing.

Gotta do your planning and include her.

RonB

[Hedley]

I guess I'm a Normite and I didn't think about DC much or air quality at all.

The basement "seems" dry as a bone. New construction on a well drained lot in Chi-town. I know the new concrete has water, but as long as no direct contact, it should be OK.

I'd love an outbuilding that I could use for this, but it's not allowed in my sub (not that I could afford it right now). Maybe when I retire in another 28 years (if I don't die at my desk as I fear).

I've thought a lot about carrying the feed and product down and up the stairwell. At least there is no kink in the strairs (landing). I could easily get a 4 ft x 20 ft board down there, assuming I could carry it.

Getting the wife involved, or at least trying to, is a great idea. The good news is that noise should not be a problem except for late at night. Bedrooms are on the second floor, well away from the area under consideration for the shop. I'll probably have to "dust" the house a time or two whilst sanding to get permission for air quality control purchases.

Again, thank you all.

[Stephen M]

Having had a basement shop for a while in N.E. USA, a "dry basement" is not about necessarily about seepage. It's about relatively moist warm summer air getting into a cool (ground temperature) basement causing the interior relative humidity to shoot up.

I had no seepage but plenty of rust issues.

Depending on your climate, a dehuminifier may be required.

-Steve

[brianlanning]

I would think that all it would take is an A/C filter over the cold air return in the basement.

brian

[David]

You might want to place a humidity gauge in the basement to verify the "seems dry" observation.

Dave

[Tom Cavanagh]

I'd go for an outside entrance if I were you. With a Bilco door preferably. It's what I had done and it works for me. Have to say though at my age (73) I try to get sheet goods ripped in two along the length less awkward and lighter for this old boy. Think on it anyway.\

[Edwin Pawlowski]

PRO Closer to the bathroom Closer to the refrigerator More even climate Warmer in winter if you are in a cold climate Closer to the bathroom (especially important in the winter) Glue cures year round Finishes cure year round No bugs flying into the open garage Closer to the bathroom Closer to the refrigerator In summer, you won't be upset at sight of 300 pound neighbor lady sunbathing in the nude

CON Finishes may stink up the house, but in summer, they can be moved outside When it is 65 to 75 degrees and the sun is shining, I'd rather in in the garage with the door wide open Dust control more important

Garage PRO Closer to the grill and smoker. Easier to vent stinky finishes Depending on location, you may be able to ogle the cute neighbor lady sunbathing while you pretend to be sanding a board.

[Mike W.]

I have a basement shop. It was heck to get all the equipment down there with two guys and I know it'll be really hard to get back up. I don't have my shop in the garage because SWMBO and I hate shoveling snow off our cars in the morning or running through the rain to get to them. I would rather have my shop in the garage if all other things were equal to be honest... just much easier to get stuff in and out. I guess it depends on whether you build stuff thats easily brought up from the basement or stuff that'll take an engineer and 4 oxes to get up.

I haven't had much of a dust issue in the house yet, but I dont work down there every day - it probably averages out to 4 or 5 hours a week. I have the small Delta Dust Collector that I just connect to the tool I'm using at the time and it does OK. For finishing I almost always have to do it in the garage because the fumes move through the house and I have two small children.

Another thing that sucks for me that sounds like you would have covered is that since we didnt want to do much to the basement until we plan the finished layout, we dont have a lot of electric runs down there. I only have a few outlets that aren't necessarily close to the shop area. So I have extension cords strung to my shop area from other areas in the basement.

Long term (a year or two), we want to finish the basement. The way mine is laid out is we basically have a big stud wall running the width of the house, about 40 ft. It provides load bearing for the house above and divides the basement into two secions, one is 13 feet deep and the other is just over 17 feet. I would like to use it all, but I don't want to get spoiled. I actually laid out the shop such that it would fit in a 15'x20' space. That way, I can really just pick it up and move it into that size of out-building when the time comes that for me to build one. Then I can finish the basement with no qualms about the space I was 'losing'.

Good luck.

Mike W.

Hedley wrote:

[Lee Michaels]

"Hedley"

I have built at least three "dust zones" barriers for basement shops. And have inspired a few more. This is a small room that is sealed off from the rest of the house. Inside is a small vacumm amd various brushes. Often with a hook to change out of some overalls.

You have to control the dust/sawdust. If this particulate matter does not invade your house, the wife will be much happier.

Also, strong, stinky finishes can be a problem. I ended up putting in some industrial type fans to help with this. They made noise but were less objectionable than the smell.

[Amy]

Having my shop in the basement for the past 35 years, I've encountered all the usual problems; access to the outside, noise, dust etc. The dust can be controlled for the most part with a dust collector and an air filter. The noise and outside access you can work with. The main benefit is absolutely no rust on ANY TOOLS and since it's heated and air conditioned as the rest of the house it's ALWAYS very comfortable.

Les Derusha [e-mail]

[Toller]

I have a walk out basement, and getting supplies in and projects out is still a major problem. I just had to pass up a $300 cabinet saw that I would have loved cause there aint no way it is getting in my basement.

Still, I would rather have a basement than a garage for all the reasons everyone else has said. Just understand the problems.

[Leuf]

I live in NE and moved about an hour north last year. Humidity was definitely a problem in the old house but wasn't this summer in the new one. Used to have all kinds of problems with condensation on the copper pipes and water tank (Go down to find a pipe has been dripping on the TS for weeks for example). Course there aren't any copper pipes in the new house anyway.

If you do move to the basement, paint all the walls and floor white before anything else.

We have hot air/ac and built a wall to separate the shop from both the HVAC and the stairs going up. Even if you don't have forced air the dust still needs to be kept away from the furnace, it'll clog up an oil furnace to the point where it dies in the middle of a cold spell. Not that I have any experience with that...

-Leuf

[Doug Miller]

Utter nonsense. This is FAR less of a problem in a basement than in a garage.

The problems would have been even worse in the garage.

My basement's not in Arizona, and I don't need to worry about it either. If I can find dehumidifiers here in Indiana, I'm sure you could have found them in NY too.

[Joseph Connors]

Hey, relax! By the tone of your response below you'd have thought he insulted your mother. These are just his opinions. Thats all.

Doug Miller wrote: