Best way to insulate metal building?

[Roy]

SWMBO has finally retired and we're fixin' to abandon Houston and move to the mountains of eastern Tennessee. The place we bought has a 5 year old metal barn, aka, The Shop. The shop is 38x40 with 14 feet to the joists and has 8 large skylight panels in the metal roof. The former owner blocked off four of these because it overheated the barn in the summer. There is an insulated room about 12x20 in the back left corner of the building.

The building is pole construction, well, actually 6x6 posts with 2x6 or 2x8 stringers on the outside about 2 feet apart. The metal siding is fastened to the stringers. There are X braces between the posts fastened to the stringers.

I don't know anything about metal buildings except that the shed in the back yard severely rusted after 12-15 years. I am concerned insulation might create a dead pocket against the metal that would eventually cause rust damage to the siding. I do not know if there is a moisture barrier under the slab.

I plan to heat with propane and install a/c in the shop area. I have not decided how much square footage to convert to the shop, but will probably keep one bay (13x38) unconditioned to store trailer, mowers, tractor, etc. I won't be there until the middle of next month, so that's about all the info I can supply

So what is the best way to insulate this thing so the walls don't rust? Closed cell spray foam? False wall with batt insulation and gap between it and the metal siding? Other???

I shudder at heating costs with 14 foot ceilings. I'm willing to replace the existing room walls if that is needed. That room needs more outlets anyway. Maybe I'll only ramp the heat level up to minimum gluing temperature in the winter, say 55-60F (13-16C, Jeff) . This new shop is the first time I've owned anything with a metal skin, outside of my pickup truck and BBQ smoker. Couple of my old trucks could have been mistaken for a smoker.

Thanks for any help. Roy

[Sonny]

I can't answer your insulating question, but an unobstructed south facing wall might be a source for radiant heat, during the winter, if uninsulated, there.... if you can't get it insulated before winter.

Sonny

[Lew Hodgett]

RE: Subject

Talk to the metal bld'g people.

Lew

[Scott Lurndal]

Where is Morris Dovey when you need him?

s

[dpb]

On 8/13/2012 3:52 PM, Roy wrote: ...

+1

--

[Joe]

I envy you the size available. Have you considered walling off & ceiling a smaller area for A/C purposes and using the area above for storage? Say, 9 feet high by

400 - 600 sq ft for the working shop and part of it or a separate small room for a spray booth. Separate small room for air compressor, chip collector, and dust collector. For insulation you might look into foam panels. Easy to put up, but I don't know how effective. I'm just down the street from you and today I broke down and ran the shop A/C the whole time I was there. Third time this year. It's only money. :)

-J

[Ed Pawlowski]

Unless the manufacturer says different, that would be my first choice.

[Doug Houseman]

My pole barn is 17 years old. I was told by Wick (since bankrupt) that I needed to roll on 2 good coats of rustoleum on the inside of the barn and then insulate like I would any wall. I used auto primer (thick, heavy paint) and put too good coats on with a medium knap roller.

I then set a pressure treated baseplate and nailed it into the slab, and covered that with a second backplate to keep the mice and rats out of the wall. I poured a thin cement mix between the edge of the slap and the baseplates to create a vermin proof seal.

Then I ran 2x6s vertically between the posts creating an 6 inch pocket to put fiberglass insulation into. I covered this will T-111 that got two coats of exterior paint on all faces (including cut edges). I screwed the T-111 in place.

A year ago I wanted to run a couple of new circuits, so I removed a sheet of T-111. I had zero rust in the cavity and the fiberglass was in good shape.

I live in Michigan, so my weather is hot and humid in the summer and cold and wet in the winter. Only the shop area is heated and that only when I am working (weekends).

I hope this helps

[Larry Jaques]

Unblock them and add opaque filters (white corr. fiberglass?) under the skylights. It will give you the light without the heat. Be sure to match up the position in the inner building's roof to let the light into your environmentally controlled space.

Have you talked with any of the steel building manufacturers about it yet? The guys at FutureSteel were great to talk to, giving me all the info I asked for, and then some. I decided against buying a building, though. (no cashish)

Or maybe go with an inexpensive heat pump setup? Set the condenser unit outside both buildings with a lean-to over it for added lifetime.

False wall/inside building would be my choice (wood's cheap here) with

2x8 or 2x10 ceiling & wall thicknesses. Use the top, under the metal shell, for storage of your extra "stuff."

Why limit yourself? With thick walls in the insulated space (say, half the shop and 10' tall?), enviro costs will be minimal.

Metal roofs and buildings are said to have 50 year lifetimes. YMMV.

-- The business of America is not business. Neither is it war. The business of America is justice and securing the blessings of liberty. -- George F. Will

[Roy]

Thanks for all who offered suggestions. I will contact the builder for his recommendations. Doug, thanks for sharing your procedure. I suspect that is a detailed version of what the builder will recommend since closed cell spray will probably be too expensive.

I liked the idea of dropping the ceiling. Two bays have 12 foot garage doors but I could still drop it 4-5 feet except for where the doors run. With a couple of sets of posts and beams I could use the space above for wood storage or as a passive solar kiln. ;^)

BTW, I looked up Morris last night and he is still using his old website. Unfortunatelty, very few of the links there still work. An overview of his passive solar work is still there.

[Roy]

I've been pondering how best to get the light down to the working space. I will take a good look at what this entails when I get up to the new place. I would love to have all the natural light I can get.

I have not contacted the builder yet as I don't know who it is. All the documents and drawings were left at the house and I have not been there since the previous owners moved. I'll get up there in another few weeks though and contact the builders.

I'll have to work the numbers and see which is going to be cheaper. My Mom, who lives about 8 minutes from the new place has this setup.

Thanks to everybody who piped in on this thread. Lots of things for me to think about while I'm packing stuff.

Roy

[Larry Jaques]

Huh? We're building docks now? I thought it was shop buildings.

Find a place who will wholesale a system to you and then use one of their guys (off the clock) to do the connection/evac/fill of freon for you. It's easy enough to do the rest yourself. I saved a few hundred by running the 240v to the disconnect and installing attic lighting for my VERY short attic where the HVAC unit went, but I had them install the thing.

Let us know what you decide on once you actually see the new place. I have friends in D.C. who are retiring to their folks' place in Tennessee when they retire. He's been with the gov't for 29.5 years and was retiring in November. In May, the personnel office called him and said "Oops. We made several tiny mistakes about 30 years ago. Unfortunately, you don't -have-a retirement plan." I'm hoping to hear that he got it straightened out, but he hasn't emailed that to me yet. This ought to be high on the list of "Reasons to go Postal", huh?

-- Make awkward sexual advances, not war.

[Roy]

Being staked out over an anthill covered in honey while somebody carefully places burning coals all over their body and pulls out their hair and fingernails is too good for them. Maybe the Feds pull that crap hoping people will die of apoplexy when they hear it. Saves on paying retirement. I'm surprised my former employer hasn't tried something like.