Sorry for the apparantly dumb question, but, as a beginner in cabinet making, where would I start? I have explored the local trade schools and community colleges, but they only offer industrial carpentry classes. I am primarily looking to build wooden enclosures for electronic devices which I manufacture. The biggest cabinet would probably be 24" x 12" x 15"
I guess there would be nothing the matter with learning on my own. Are there any good books to be recommended to me? Also, if you were instructing someone how to get into this, what prerequsite power tools would you recommend in order of their importance?
Again, sorry if this seems like a stupid question.
Given the size of the cabinet, you could build it from 1x12 pine and would need nothing more than a hand saw, hammer, nails (#8 finishing), nail set and you could come up with a cabinet that would do what you wanted. "Plain Jane" yes, but it would work and you would have done it yourself.
There are a number of beginners books at your local library. The New Yankee Workshop, Woodworks (fairly advanced) American Woodshop, and another on DIY, all can give you pointers.
The best advice I can give you is, begin with a good table saw. This might be a two stage purchase. You can get a fairly good saw for not a whole lot, but it will have a lousy fence. Take what you saved from the saw and buy a Beismeyer fence.
Once you have your TS set up, then buy slowly, as you find a tool you often find yourself needing but not having. Do not buy more quality than you need. Realize, you can always upgrade if you need to and there is some beginner who would love to have your beginning equipment.
We all had to start sometime. Not all of us knew where to start and some of us still seem to flounder sometimes.
What do you want to accomplish? Fancy cabinetry or utilitarian box? Two a year or two a day? Just bought a house and started a family budget or just cashed out your blue chip stock portfolio?
Most shops start with a tablesaw. My first one was $200, my second (and last) one was $800 a few years later. You can also spend $2000 on a saw. A good blade is very important also ($50 to $120) Sander, router, drill, drill press, shop vac are usually near the front end of purchasing. Planer, jointers and specialty tools come later as needed.
What material do you plan to use? Buying rough cut hardwood requires different tools than using plywood or pine boards from the lumber yard. If you have a sketch or photo of what you want, post in on alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking From that, people can better suggest what you need to build it.
That sounds like industrial carpentry to me. But maybe you mean they=20 teach construction carpentry...
Well if we know what type of cabinets you wanted to produce it would be=20 a lot easier -- and where you are (generally) might be relevant if it is =
large quantities -- as some woods will be cheaper/more expensive=20 depending on region. Do you want walnut, maple or cherry? Are you=20 thinking of exotic woods?
Is this fine cabinetry? Is it a cheap white pine box you envisage? What=20 quality of assembly would you like? In other words -- fancy joinery or=20 butt joints, nails and wood filler...??
Maybe stained cherry, polished with a rag dampened with acetone for the=20 finish. (Local joke eh...)
BTW a "budget per box" might help people understand what can be done.=20 Even if your budget is ridiculous some people will help you understand=20 why it is so and what can be done... -- even if it's nothing. LOL
We all have had a few in our time.
--=20 Will R. Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
formatting link
power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20 who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw
Your using wood as an enclosure to electronic devices? I find it hard to believe that UL or CSA would approve of this. You might want to check out alternative materials. If your talking about an outer cabinet to hold racks of metal enclosures you might be ok. By using wood as a immediate enclosure, if you sell to a consumer and there is a fire you could be sued by not using approved materials or a certified product. The whole UL/CSA approval process can be expensive and lengthy. Suggest you do some Goggle searches on the subject.
Table saws though will cut lamininates and lexan which are more resistant to fire. There may be other materials suitable. Just something to think of before putting yourself at risk.
Hardwood plywood would work very well. Plywood can be had with birch, maple, mahogany, cherry, walnut, etc... faces. Most of the store bought speakers are actually made of this. Rarely are they solid walnut or cherry.
Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking:
Jeff Jewitt's finishing book:
An excellent book to help you design and build the cabinets you already have in mind:
Most are also in public libraries. Note that none have "projects" in them. You've already got a project in mind.
Pick up the Tage Frid book and you'll get a good idea of what you'll need. Knowing exactly what material you want to work with first will also help you decide where to head. A table saw will most likely be your best first "major tool".
Other good stuff to have at the beginning, in no particular order:
Regardless of material: Random orbit sander Router Hammer & nail set Drill / driver & drill, screwdriver, and countersink bits Screwdrivers Sanding blocks & paper Decent paint brushes Jigsaw Circular saw Tape measure Combination square Sharp pencils
Plywood: Biscuit (plate) jointer (semi-advanced, but indispensable for plywood cases)
I don't think anyone needs classes for woodworking. They're nice, but not necessary. Possibly the biggest advantage of classes is the supervision and knowledge learned of safety. You can hurt yourself real, real bad with just about any woodworking tool, even hand tools. My worst gashes to date have come from chisels. You should watch New Yankee Workshop, Router Workshop, and Woodwrights shop on PBS, and Woodworks and DIY woodworking both on DIY network. DIY woodworking focuses on beginner and intermediate projects using tools most of us have.
Buy at least one book that covers all the basics and a book on finishing. I also buy a book with each major tool purchase--a table saw book, a router book etc. Use the advanced newsgroup search on Google. Just about every woodworking question can be answered that way. I think you need to start with a table saw. Plan on spending $500+ if you buy new. A router comes in a close second. A router will do just about anything with enough guides, fixtures and setup time. You will also want to build a router table. Buy router bits as you need them. Sets may seem like a good idea, but you don't know what you need until you need it. You will need a preferably cordless hand drill, and a drill press is nice too, but you can get away with a drill guide for most things. A drill press is really nice for drum sander attachments. You will need a good try square and at least one long straight edge. Get a block plane and at least one larger size plane. Good planes are expensive, cheap planes can be made to work if you spend time learning how and put the work into it. Pick your poison, but in any case you will need to learn how to tune them. If you buy surfaced lumber, then you can get by without a planer or jointer for a while. If you will be cutting any curves, then you need to think about a bandsaw. A hand held jigsaw can do curves too, but not as well as a bandsaw. A bandsaw is also best for resawing, but it is a big and fiddly machine. Buy the Duginske book if you get a bandsaw. You may find you never have enough clamps. It's an old woodworking joke, but not really funny because it is true. Pipe clamps are the most economical long clamp, but they don't have much reach. You will spend lots of money on clamps. You will need a large backsaw, razor saw, flush cut saw (get a Japanese one), two or three chisels, rasps, files, glues, nails, screws, finishes, solvents, brushes and on and on. I have only a very basic budget shop and I probably have about $4000 invested, maybe more. I really have lost count. I have a wish list that totals at least another $3000 or so, and probably $1000 of it is must have stuff.
You may have a point, although these types of cabinets are lined with fire retardant materials. I do have a question. If wood is an acceptable enclosure for electric devices, then why is it a must to use a box (metal, bakelite, etc) for an electrical outlet or switch in a wall. Its not acceptable to create a wooden outlet box for a wall.
I'm saying what is or isn't acceptable, just giving him something to think about before getting into trouble. Didn't intent to imply that wood can't be used at all. He can make wonderfully looking fascias surrounding the equipment in wood.
I also agree with your suggestions of learning through the various ww shows, books, magazines and asking questions.
UL/CSA is interested in all of that, but primarily the circuit. There are rules regarding the specs for any given category of device. Unless one of you here is a UL or CSA investigator the only way to know for certain is to ask them.
That said, plenty of electronic devices are housed in wood enclosures. Just follow whatever rules UL has for that. Generally speaking CSA will also likely use the same rules, but again, ask them, not us.
FWIW, I began by subscribing to Woodsmith and building several of their projects. Other magazines, like Fine Woodworking (FWW), Wood and Popular Woodworking were also used. The quality of content in most magazines has varied considerably over the past 20 years EXCEPT for Woodsmith and FWW.
Woodsmith is consistently good for beginner type things with complete step by step instructions for what they build. Back issues/articles are available. The step by step make this a good choice if you're going to learn on your own.
FWW is aimed at a higher level of craftsmanship. In the beginning the things in there were the stuff of dreams for me. Today I could build most though not all of what appears in the pages of their magazine. FWW also has *some* back issues available and has a CD for sale that is said to have most of the articles from the beginning on it.
If you want a school environment, Places like Woodcraft offer classes, there's also schools like American Sycamore (and others) that teach classes on one aspect or another of WW.
Actually, Norm recommends a jointer as one of the first "large" power tools. He said so the other day. Gettinf those edges straight and true is a MUST.
I can't even begin to imagine why you'd think this was a dumb question.
This isn't _quite_ what I'd think of as "cabinet making", although I guess you are making cabinets.
Industrial carpentry is OK. But look for a course that teaches furniture making (portable boxes made in workshop) rather than house building (making fixed buildings by working on-site). You can learn by many methods, but a workshop course will give you hands-on experience with big expensive machines that you won't get otherwise.
Guitar amps etc ?
By the sound of things, you're going to be making fairly simple plywood boxes, covered in a separate covering. Now this is a fine thing to be doing (you're selling electronics here, not boxes) and it's also pretty simple woodworking.
Somewhere out there are a couple of books (can't remember the names, but they're around) called "How to build cabinets for stage gear" and "How to build loudspeaker enclosures". You need to read these, because fancy-ass cabinetry by James Krenov won't last 5 minutes with roadies humping it. And speaker design is somewhere between rocket science and voodoo chicken sacrificing.
Google this newsgroup for book list recommendations. I know many of us have suggested lists out on the web. I'd suggest
"Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking, Vols 1 & 2"
"The Accurate Table Saw", Ian Kirby
This is going to be your main working tool - learn how to drive it.
You can probably skip Flexner's book on finishing, unless you're planning some. "Understanding Wood Finishing"
You might find a few of the kitchen cabinet books, like Jim Tolpin's
to be useful.
That's probably how most of us did it. Some stuff needs information to be given to you though, as it's expensive (or even painful) to work it out for yourself.
I'm assuming you're making guitar amps (if not, tell us). These are boxes of 1/2" plywood, butted and reinforced in the corners. then they're covered with assorted fabrics and leathercloths and have edge reinforcements screwed on. They also have obscure cutouts for metal sub-panels.
Your material is good quality 1/2" plywood. Chipboard (particle board) is garbage, MDF is heavy and doesn't have the mechanical stiffness (can be useful for speakers and valve amps though). Birch ply is the best. Rainforest ply is often of poor quality, unless you choose carefully, and tropical ply is unsustainable.
You won't believe how much you spend on timber! Check your suppliers out carefully - there's a big difference.
Hand tools
Workbench (doesn't need to be big, must be solid) Assembly bench (can be low and flimsy, but needs to be separate from the workbench - stacked pallets at a pinch) Workmate (optional - for holding the big things the workbench can't)
Pencils (hard, soft, average, 0.7mm mechanical) Get a good journal / big bound notebook too (NOT a ringbinder) and write down or draw _everything_ so it doesn't get lost afterwards. Make regular notes on how big you made things, or on recipe proportions, so you can reproduce them later.
12" steel rule, good tape measure (Stanley Leverlock with the base lock lever) Carpenter's 10" square, Big (3' - 4' leg) framing square Big steel compasses with screw adjust (also small ones, dividers etc.) Small block plane (Lee Valley low angle) Rolls of sandpaper in 60,80,120,180,240 grit and a few hand blocks Knife (rough utility) Knife (razor sharp and kept for marking out) Saws; cheap "Borg" tenon saw, panel saw, 12" hacksaw, coping saw Clamps; malleable iron G clamps (to fit over edge of workbench + 2") and lots of cheap long aluminium sash clamps. Hand-held countersink bit, screwdrivers, sharp awl, files (lots more too)
PVA-based glue. Avoid polyurethanes. Contact glue too for coverings, and epoxy is always handy (get a West System trial pack and some microballoon filler)
Don't get hung up on these. Woodworking is about skill, not shininess of the tools.
The table saw slices up your plywood. You can spend a little or a lot
- largely depending on how much space you have, how much budget, and how fast you want to work. The Ryobi 3000 is "entry level" here, a "classic" Unisaw is great for hardwood furniture making, but for an industrial shop working plywood you want (not need) something like this
This has a sliding table, it's big enough to eat a whole 8'x4' sheet, and it has a scoring saw (second tiny blade up front, that gives a cleaner cut on the underside). Whatever you have, have suitable blades to hand, including a fine plywood blade.
You _need_ a good tablesaw. You _need_ accurate square cuts in the sizes you're working at. Bigger and more expensive is better, but there are ways to work with just that cheap Ryobi.
Hand-held circular saw. So your table saw is small and it won't take a whole sheet - then use this first. Place the sheet on a few wooden trestles, then rip it down in size with this, just to make it manageable. You'll want a cheap saw (£50 not £100) from a good maker, because it's lighter weight and you're only cutting plywood. Fit a proper plywood blade to it first. A long straight edge guide helps too.
Jigsaw. Get a really good one, such as the Bosch GST2000. This vibrates less, so you get a usably good cut with less clean-up. It's not a desperately useful tool (go circular if you can), but it will work inside a hole that the others can't.
Biscuit jointer. The quick way to make simple joints in plywood. Fairly cheap too.
Router. Not that much use (for these simple boxes, you should get most done with the saw). Very cheap though and a cheap 1/4" router with a bearing-guided chamfer bit is often useful. Later on, tool up with a real 1/2" router and maybe a table - you might start making repeat patterns with a template. No substitute for a biscuit jointer.
Bench drill - mainly for metalworking, so get one that offers slower speeds too. You're going to be doing some panel making, and this is much nicer with a bench drill than a hand-held.
I'm not as experienced as Norm or many of the guys here, but I still don't have a jointer. My edges line up though. Probably won't get one for another year as I have other priorities. I'm able to buy wood with a decent edge to start with or use a sled to cut in on the TS the first time.
The circuit in a wall is governed by a building code that allows certain specified rated devices to be used. Building codes do not apply to devices that are not "permanently" installed.
I have seen no "fire retardant materials" on the inside of any wooden-cased electronic devices. It is commonplace to use wooden cases for speakers for example, and any "fire retardant materials" would likely negate the acoustic effect for which the wood is used in the first place.
Or the whole case. In case you haven't checked, most common plastics are not particularly fire resistant and produce some really _obnoxious_ vapors. Given a choice between styrene, which burns merrily, or ipe, which burns about as well as concrete, I'd prefer to take my chances with ipe.
There are other ways to get those edges straight. Hand plane is least expensive but requires some practice. Router table or run a hand held between the 2 edges using a straight edge.
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