Baltic birch vs. Poplar for Bathroom Cabinet

[Rich]

Well like you, I'm in the business. And have seen what has happened to Poplar. My supplier won't even offer it for sale.

[-MIKE-]

Many toe kicks are cut into the plywood carcass of the cabinet. My question has nothing to do with one's preference or any implicit quality level involved in the choice. My question is directed to the context of the thread which is about water absorbing into the plywood.

So, when someone says, "plywood shouldn't be in direct contact with the fly," I ask, why not?

[-MIKE-]

I think it was you who mention beech and birch. Both are a joy to work with, finish very evenly, probably more even than maple... and have a much tighter, smoother grain than oak.

[Swingman]

And you're right with new construction and regions where foundations are traditionally laid over a vapor barrier that prevents "wicking" from the surrounding soil into the concrete slab ... once the concrete is cured the moisture content in the concrete is not usually enough to effect the edge of a plywood end panel with a toe kick notch in it, and there is nothing to stop that type of cabinet from sitting on a vapor barrier itself at minimal cost.

All bets are off in regions where below grade building; basements, etc, is prevalent.

[-MIKE-]

How many bathroom cabinets are on foundation concrete, however? And is the OP's?

(did I write "fly?") :-)

[J. Clarke]

They're all euphemisms for Soviet Birch. Only the Soviet Union is no more and the name has stuck. Read the fine print, don't just assume from the nomenclature that it has specific properties.

[Lew Hodgett]

-------------------------------- "Baltic" includes not only Russian but also other Eastern European producers.

Only Finland uses exterior glue.

Lew

[Larry W]

Why did that sentence make me think of Jesus Christ?

[blueman]

Is there any disadvantage to red oak over Beech if it's painted?

[blueman]

Nope... it's on the 3rd floor. The question is whether some occassional wicking from small "puddles" left over from showers or baths is an issue?

[-MIKE-]

In my mind, Beech would look better painted, unless you like the deep, wide grain of oak. Some do, some don't.

[-MIKE-]

I guess I'm just trying to figure out who's getting puddles on their bathroom floors. Little quarter sized pools where some drops have gathered, yes, but enough to cover the floor to the point it reaches the cabinets? You'd have to be a pretty large person to leave a puddle when you get out of the shower. Several large people. And besides, who's *not* using bath mats?

If you're leaving those kinds of puddles, you need a locker room, not a bathroom. :-)

[Larry Jaques]

You naughty boy.

I don't think they had panty hose back then, LW. And even if they did, and he did wear 'em, I doubt he'd have been wearing them at the time. (Sorry, J)

-- Self-development is a higher duty than self-sacrifice. -- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

[Father Haskell]

fast growing usually means weak.

[Father Haskell]

Shooting a little superglue into the screw holes makes the surrounding MDF hard as a rock and much more able to hold screws. Not real practical, though.

[Morgans]

That'll work just fine ... smart man!

*****************************************

How about basswood?

-- Jim in NC

[blueman]

I went to a local high quality lumber shop used mostly by cabinet makers. I was all set to buy the Birch despite its 3x cost.

I started chatting with one of the managers mentioning that I was told that Poplar "ain't what it used to be" -- and the manager told me that while he would love to sell me the higher priced Birch, in his experience Poplar is both more stable and more workable than Birch. A couple of customers within earshot agreed... so maybe the issue with Poplar is a regional one or maybe it depends on the quality of the Poplar.

The Poplar was prety cheap ($1.67 per lineal foot for 1x6), high quality and already S4 so I went with the Poplar rather than paying $5.50 per bf for S3 birch (that was still rougher than the nicely milled Poplar).

[Swingman]

Word to the wise ... a salesman (someone "selling" you something) in any business having to do with construction, and particularly cabinetmaking, lumber yards or otherwise, is never to be trusted ... they're like politicians when it comes to there lips moving. :)

A good rule to follow: Whenever a salesman advises, ask to see an example of _his_ work in that regard.

Better to ask a cabinetmaker, or better yet, a cabinet door maker (where quality and material choice will totally make or break the deal), one who cares about their product, what they use.

(and at least two have already advised you in that regard)

The price is generally a good indicator of material quality in this business. There is a big difference between inexpensive and "cheap" ... your words. Not that the cheaper material will all be bad, but you generally have to buy much more of it, and the risk of having to redo work because of inherent instability will make it more expensive in the long run.

That notwithstanding, the odds are you should be just fine for your one-off cabinet face frame, mainly because a face frame is constrained in movement by attachment to the cabinet panels.

(However, it only takes one, constrained or not, to ruin an entire run in a $60K kitchen, so those who care do not use price as the ultimate factor in choosing material).

However, should you use that "cheap" (your words) poplar he sold you for your cabinet door frames, I will guarantee that one of every three will bow/warp to some extent in the not too distant future.

Did you pick out the wood yourself, and more importantly, do you know what to look for?

If you know what to look for you can indeed reduce your odds of that happening, but not as significantly with today's poplar as you can with other wood species.

In any event, you should likely be OK, and good luck with your project.

[-MIKE-]

I'm automatically suspect of any salesman who says, "Poplar is both more stable and more workable than Birch." Really!?

In any case, it's entirely possible that they actually make more profit on the less expensive poplar than the more expensive Birch, which may influence his recommendation.