Worth it to have Economy 7?

I guess they do not want E7 people.

N-Power Sign Online Dual Fuel V18 Electricity - Day...... 4.98p inc VAT (*1) Electricity - Night ...10.67p inc VAT (*1) Gas ....................... 2.42p inc VAT (*1)

(*1) Less =A350+=A350 annual discount on those prices or about 10-12%.

Gas is half the price - but has higher capital, maintenance, teeth sucking & maintenance cost.

If you are North facing, detached, poorly insulated, then it is a pretty much a no-brainer to use gas.

If you are South facing, semi-detached, well insulated (and I do not mean just windows!) then E7 can be viable but I hate the lack of true radiant heating so it is relegated to bulk-hall & bedroom heating. Living areas get proper radiant which is so much more comfortable than anything except underfloor which is the ideal (with heat-pump or GCH or I suppose E7 if you can get a row of tanks!).

Reply to
js.b1
Loading thread data ...

Sounds good. Usually the night tariff is more expensive.

Reply to
BartC

Are you sure:-)?

Reply to
ARWadsworth

You've missed out one vital number.

Let's say that you use x units during the day period and y during the night period. Total use in 24 hours = (x+y).

If N = standard day rate, D = E7 day rate, and C = E7 night rate, the break-even point is given when

N * (x+y) = D*x + C*y

so N*x + N*y = D*x + C*y

and N*y = x(D-N) + c*y

and 0 = x(D-N) + y(C-N)

so -x(D-N) = y(C-N)

and - x/y = (C-N)/D-N)

Putting in some illustrative figures

C = 5 D = 15 N =12

-x/y = (5 - 12)/(15 - 12)

- x/y = -7/3

So the break-even point is when you use 3 night-rate units and 7 day rate units in 24 hours using the sample figures given.

Or put it another way, night rate must be at least 30 percent of total electicity consumption on the sample figures given.

Punch in your own numbers and see what you get. Don't forget that in summer those cheap night rate units might be going to waste.

TF

Reply to
Terry Fields

Heh! Oops, the Day is 10.67p and the Night is 4.98p and

00:30-07:30 :-)

Sat on a freezing cold quarry tile floor all afternoon, brain must be a bit lower than it used to be...

Reply to
js.b1

Be carefull Kev. You will have half of uk.d-i-y telling you that combi boilers are crap and that you will never get financial payback for your new boiler.

Reply to
ARWadsworth

TBH, a few years ago and I was arguing that I wouldn't touch a combi with a barge-pole. The people I knew who had one never ceased complaining about the lukewarm water from the hot tap - and the fact that it took two hours to fill a bath.

When I was considering replacing the boiler I was still of that opinion - and planning on having a condensing non-combi put in. It was only my next door neighbour (and a few posters on uk.diy) telling me that new combis were a huge improvement on old ones, that persuaded me to change my mind. We have no regrets whatsoever. There is ample hot water and it feeds our shower without the need for pumps. It does take a little longer to fill the bath than it did before - but not significantly longer - and so long as you are aware of the fact and start the bath running in plenty of time - it's just not an issue.

The cost saving has been significant for us and, as our old boiler was on its last legs anyway - the replacement cost was necessary.

There are other benefits as well. With our old boiler, first thing in the morning when the timer kicked in, the heat produced would be divided between heating the water in the tank and heating the water in the radiators. With our combi, all the heat goes to the radiators and so the house heats up a lot faster for when we get out of bed. We also have piping hot water whenever we want it - and it never runs out! If we have guests we can all have a shower or bath one after the other without the water starting to run cold. I'm a complete convert!

Reply to
Ret.

Because until a couple of years ago I wasn't aware there was a difference between the day rates and thus had no reason to check them. I have never had E7 so when we signed up we told them we had two meters. Nobody mentioned different rates. I didn't find out until someone showed me their bill and I noticed the difference

Reply to
AlanG

I think some places over here have those, too - aren't they designed to better measure consumption, and also allow back-feeding of home-generated power to the grid?

The setup we've got here is a little control box and a bunch of relays - the power company send a signal down the wire (@ 220Hz IIRC) and can switch them on and off. We've got two meters outside, one measuring total consumption and one measuring just the load-controlled portion, but I don't believe there's anything special about them.

Long ago I came to the conclusion that it's not really worth shopping around for any kind of long-term service (gas, 'leccy, phone etc.) - even if a deal seems attractive initially, they always seem to end up screwing you sooner or later and it probably all pretty much averages out over a longer period of time.

(Our local 'leccy company's a co-op, incidentally, so we tend to get a nice little cheque in the post every so often if they're doing well. That's nice, because I don't think there's actualy a choice of power supplier around here anyway)

cheers

Jules

Reply to
Jules Richardson

You don't have to convert me:-) It takes longer to fill a bath but so what. At least you can take a bath at anytime of the day without waiting for the HW to heat up.

Reply to
ARWadsworth

That depends. Latest 64 bit flash breaks on many sites. Old version did not.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Useful post Kev, thanks.

We've got a thirty year old Baxi Bermuda back boiler - without tempting Providence, it works and works well, keeps us toasty warm with lashings of hot water.

But common sense tells me it won't last forever.

Reply to
Rasta Pickles

With that much insulation you could save on the wood. Simply invite a couple of friends around to watch telly with you. Each person will produce around 104 watts of heat while sitting down and relaxing.

Get a few exercise bikes in the room and you could increase it to around 500W per person! You could even charge for the use of your "gym".

Reply to
Cynic

Ebico rates are not the best but you only pay for what you use, there are no standing charges in any form. Which is the context of this sub-thread.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

I still don't see how this is a rip off.

I can assure you, as someone who previous lived in a property that only had electric heating, that the E7 tariff saves some people a lot of money, so it is hardly a "scam" on the part of the leccy company that it is available.

tim

Reply to
tim....

Economy 7 is utter crap. It is cheap to run but extremely inflexible. On cold days, the storage heaters cool down in the afternoon and you have to rely on full tariff electricity or gas to heat the house in the evening. If you guess cold day but it's a warm day the next day, you are wasting energy and sweltering as you can't adjust the storage heaters. I had it 20 years ago. I would not buy any house that had Economy 7 installed.

Reply to
I am not Spartacus

This side of the pond with our fantastic market driven deregulated gas and electric suppliers it is well worth the occasional look at what is out there. There are always very good deals avialable but they generally a contract for a period of time after which you revert to the standard tarrif from that supplier. Between these and the standard tarrifs there are the open ended deals that give you better prices by insisting on fixed monthly Direct Debit, paperless billing, supllying meter readings online etc.

Then of course there is huge spread of costs just on standard tarrifs let alone involving any discounts or deals. A little while ago when doing my annualish check of prices I was staggered to see electricty tarrifs with unit costs not far short of 20p, I think I was paying about 7p/unit (DD, Paperless etc etc) at the time ...

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Except when the hot water is working, the heating is off (depending on the boiler).

I haven't had much luck with combi boilers. I inherited an old one when I bought a house, which blew up, then over the course of nine years installed

*two* new combis, always going wrong (mostly due to sludge in the system), and spending a fortune on successive 'CH engineers' who hadn't a clue what they were doing.

I've been renting recently and have an average of one problem a year, fortunately the owner took care of it.

I wish I just had one of those back boilers, with gravity fed hot water, and an unpressurised CH system that is so easy (and less dangerous) to mess about with. Those will work for decades. There is no "PCB" that will suddenly decide the boiler shouldn't operate. Or one of those wall-mounted hot water boilers: open a hot water tap, and the gas ignites and gives you hot water *every time*; if there is a gas and water supply (and the pilot is lit), it will work. No electronics.

Reply to
BartC

Mine doesn't heat the water up very well at all. I've had two previously - a Potterton with several circuit boards , one of which would regularly pop, costing around 120 + labour a time, and the other (can't remember what it was) which ate pumps for a living at

95 quid + labour every time. The one I have now is an Isar, and backfires when you are least expecting it. Like being shot at in the middle of the night.
Reply to
Maria

You seem to be assuming that Economy 7 means storage heaters. As others have said, provided a certain proportion (depending upon your actual tariff) of your usage is at night, then it can still be worthwhile.

Simply by running the washing machine and dishwasher overnight, and the tumble dryer first thing in the morning (we have to be up early anyway) I am saving money. Now that I have solar PV, my daytime consumption will fall (averaged over the year) and improve the benefit.

Chris

Reply to
Chris J Dixon

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.