Where to put a new master phone socket

Currently, the incoming phone cable terminates in a small junction box on the front wall of the property, from where a separate cable runs some thirty feet to the master socket. The phone and wired router are both located on a desk very close to the master socket.
The builders doing some renovation work on the house have suggested putting the master socket on the front wall and then running two cables to the desk area. Is there any technical reason why that shouldn't be done? Will the internet performance be affected if the router is further from the master socket than it is at present?
Thanks.
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all the cabling before the master socket (and the socket itself) are the property of BT. You (or your builders) are not allowed to alter them.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

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"charles" wrote:

Interesting, thanks. I wonder then why the master socket wasn't placed by BT where the builders are suggesting putting it now. Is it usual for the incoming cable not to run directly to a master socket but to terminate in a junction box just inside the property and then run on from there? Doesn't that junction in the cable affect the quality or performance of the line?
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On 20/08/16 08:59, Bert Coules wrote:

However in practice Openreach dont give a shit.
I took my overhead into the new build loft, and connected it to some cat 5 and ran it down to a master socket where I wanted iot. Ehen I had issues with the line, the Openreach engineer said 'it checks out OK - the fault is in the road, but I've put a proper BT junction box in the loft for you :-)

Not so as you would notice, no.
Corroded joints are the problem, or huge runs on cable that isn't some semblance of twisted pair.
Good joints are unnoticeable up to the sorts of frequencies that ADSL runs at (<2MHz) and are totally unnoticeable for actual audio.

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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Thanks for that. So apart from the need to run two cables from the front of the house to the desk rather than one as at present, moving the master socket should have no appreciable effect?
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On 20/08/16 09:10, Bert Coules wrote:

Nope.
Proper screw or crimped connections, proper BT or CAT5 style cable, and as long as you aren't running past a radio transmitter, you wont notice anything.
Use a nice ADSL filter equipped master faceplate, too.
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On 20/08/2016 9:05 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I will second that. Having a faulty line for over a year, I eventually got Tiscali to send an engineer. I was very concerned that my none BT box and very clean wiring, routed back to the junction point, was noticed.
I showed the engineer some captures of the constant internet (only) signal drops. He looked at the box and line. He took the cover off the box. He said, 'nothing wrong in here. He did the same for the junction box. He then said he is having 30 minutes dinner and then will inspect the street cabinet.
He later explained a cable had become stretched, that he has eased pressure on it but, it may happen again. (?)
Some months later, It did. I cannot remember and the same guy phoned me and said he is getting on with putting a new piece of wire in the cabinet. He did; job done, no problems since.
You take your chances with who visits you.
...Ray.

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My Virgin one has two joins, one in a box on the wall outside and one on my window sill inside the house, then the master socket is on the skirting board. The guy who came to fis it a few weeks back said he was glad it had a box not a master socket as it made changing the offending bit, between the box and the outside box a lot easier. The original instalation had rather perversely been put under my stainless steel step plate in the porch and over time the flexing had basically chaffed away the insulation. The new wire runs above the door. Brian
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Brian Gaff wrote:

Brian, that's very interesting, thank you. I'll put that point to the builder's electrician.
Bert
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Bert Coules wrote:

True.

True, but often ignored. If you are convinced that you or your builders can do a "proper job" of moving it, it's vanishingly improbable that BT will ever notice.

Not usual these days, the "lozenge" was typical before sockets when the all phones were fixed wiring. I think a standard BT install now is generally to have the master socket within a meter of where it enters the property, any thing else is chargeable, or the customer's responsibility.

Insignificant.
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On 20/08/2016 09:18, Andy Burns wrote:

New house - master socket is just inside the garage. Yes, within a metre of the entry point. If only they'd upgrade the feed to fibre...
--
Rod

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On 8/20/2016 9:18 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
BT prefer to terminate direct onto master socket, and as long as this is within a metre or so of point of entry they will do that. Further than that they will charge.
Any joint can result in degradation of signal - however you are unlikely to notice this.
If where you want master socket is a long way form point of entry they would normally terminate in a box and then run cable to the master socket.
As someone mentioned this would be in a 'lozenge' shaped box
Anything before the master socket, including the terminal box, is the property of Openreach. Legally only they can work on this. However records are not up to date - you could move and as long as it is done with correct terminations, unlikely to ever be queried.
The recommend answer if asked was to say your guy moved it for me ....... no engineer is going to drop his mate in it.
However if not correctly terminated and incorrect cable - then you will be charged in the event of a fault.
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When I went over to FTTC OR engineer moved my master socket to the other end of the house f-o-c. ISTR the limit was about 15 meters BICBW.

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bert

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On 8/20/2016 9:18 PM, bert wrote:

Perhaps they have relaxed rules - but used to be it had to be as near to point of entry as possible - they didn't want to be responsible for cable within premise. Easy to have a point of entry demarc location everything downstream is them not their problem. I built ducting into my foundations and a BT duct comes up inside my comms cupboard ..... so not an issue for me. Other than fact have had comments for not using their master sockets, use my own purchased ones with built in filter and split out data & voice connections, so don't have to use front panel or BT filter - for easier connection.
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My very recent experience is that having your master socket next to the router can double the download speed.

--
Tim Lamb

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On 20/08/16 09:20, Tim Lamb wrote:

My consistent experience is that that is utter rubbish, unless you have a wiring fault as well.

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Spider work maybe. The original input fed 4 telephone points. One of which was connected to the router. Max speed 5 to 8Meg. There was no master socket.
Following the recent nearby lightning strike, Open Reach fitted a master socket at the input point. When I whinged about line speeds he volunteered to move the master to where the router is connected. This allowed the disposal of filters recommended by my provider.

--
Tim Lamb

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Tim Lamb wrote:

Which suggests "faulty" wiring has been removed in the process of moving it, did you have star-wired extensions or multiple master sockets beforehand?
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Star!

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On 20/08/2016 09:20, Tim Lamb wrote:

Yes, I thought it was standard practice now to put the router right next to the master socket.
That gives us a problem in upgrading to use FTTC, as I assume it would involve putting an ugly new box on the wall near the master socket which is currently in the hallway, as was common practice 30 years ago. Unfortunately there's no mains socket nearby except a single one on the other side of a doorway (and that's needed from time to time for a vacuum cleaner). Does anyone know whether OpenReach are willing to install a new master socket in a new location if one upgrades to FTTC without charging an arm and a leg?
--
Clive Page

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