what's wrong with timber-frame houses in S England?

Being from Canada, I've always thought timber-frame was a very solid type of house construction, and I've stayed in good-quality timber-frame houses in Scotland and Scandinavia too. Ones built to withstand tough weather conditions (rain, wind, snow), and that are decently insulated too.

But friends tell me that new-build timber-frame houses in southern England, especially on estates, are often crap, and get all sorts of problems within 10-20 years, e.g. walls bowing, etc.

I'd be grateful if someone could tell me what's actually wrong with a lot of the timber-frame houses built in England!

I'm not wholly sure what they're on about. But some of them have got acquaintances in the building trade, so I think there must be some basis to it.

(Or is it the shock of the new?? Maybe not, given the poor-quality windows and wall-insulation etc. I've seen going into new-build houses in England???)

Thanks,

Chris

Reply to
hanrahan398
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It may more of a consequence of extreme budget pressures on home-building in the South East.

Building land is very scarce, and hence expensive. To produce houses at an affordable price means squeezing the build costs.

As timber frame is used extensively in starter homes where pricing is most competitive, it may be the area most likely to show the effects of economy aand speed over quality.

Add to this the shortage of skilled labour in the building trade (a problem now being somewhat overcome by labour from Eastern Europe) - and there's a recipe for quality problems.

Reply to
dom

It's not the materials used, it's the people that put them together and the cost/spec cutting to maximise profits before quality.

Reply to
Mal

No shortage of UK workers, it's just that major companies employ for as little as possible and use unskilled people combined with cheap materials. That's what causes the problem - it's all about profit nothing else.

Reply to
Mal

The problems mentioned used to be a combination of using green timber and the lack of, or perforation of, the damp proof membrane that should be installed between the timber frame and the brick skin.

I bought a new timber frame house yonks ago which wasn't any problem for

7 years. Typically they would put up the timbers for a whole row of houses at once, let them stand in the rain for six weeks, then put the bricks up while the wood was wet.

john2

Reply to
john2

If you haven't been here long you will quickly find that most, if not all, problems to do with pretty much anything in this country are down to money in one way or another. Governement/companies/people (in that order) not being at all willing to part with any of it, that is.

Welcome to one of the richest countries in the world.

Si

Reply to
Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot

There were some firms in the early days with no quality control and the inspectors in the areas might not have been as familiar with the method then fairly new to them. Timber is phenomenally susceptible to movement beween wet or dry. Treated timber should be safe to leave out in the rain though as far as rot is concerned.

That's iff the cuts are treated too but I have never seen that done.

British housing inspection is I believe very much more strict than in other countries but on the other hand the builders from the boss down tend to be more unscrupulous.

The boss wants a large return for his capital and is unwilling to spend anything in advance of the payments which they recieve from their backers in stages of development.

Often the way that finances are screwed out of customers (held dangling waiting to move in) are criminal.

Then there is the way tradesmen are payed. Pricework. If they can get a job done quickly by cutting corners they will. And if the site agent is not able to keep them in check or fightened of being left in the lurch, he may let things pass.

This happens because the boss only wants to build houses when there is a boom on. Most tradesmen have to grab all they can when it's there. It's a demented, bad business model that takes a geat deal of experience to navigate.

I imagine that in poorly populated regions the building cycle is less likely to get out of control as the prices of houses tend to fluctuate less or rather go up in price more slowly. And tradesmen are less able to find work locally from different employers.

There is a tendency to have a more parochial atmosphere with most of the men working on the books to an hourly rate. Also most of the men will have started locally and learned the trade slowy doing things the one way for that region.

They do tend to be shown up as slow by tradesmen coming into a region like that from a large town where everything has to be done ASAP rather than properly. It can be a case of swings and roundabouts.

Yer pays yer muny...

Reply to
Weatherlawyer

In one way the typical British climate - damp - is worse than the extended freezing weather you get in Canada and Scandinavia: much greater risk of condensation.

Reply to
Tony Bryer

Nothing wrong with mine apart from shrinkage due to using green oak.

Sopping timber does shrink a bit as the house dries out - you do get some warpage, especially if the timber used has too small and too green.

We don;t have to withstand quite the extremes of temp that you do, and people rather expect a blockwork house - they certainly feel more solid..mine rings like a bass drum when you slam the front door..we have more clay than we have timber here as well..so wood is not necessarily a cheap locally sourceable alternative.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

agreed, but there's more to it than that.

German friends are often surprised when I say that whilst their summers are warmer than ours, our winters are warmer than theirs.

Typically their winter days stay below zero 24 hours; whilst ours, at least in the parts where most people live, typically freeze in the night, but warm up above freezing during the day. That's what wrecks our woodwork: its surface is damp for a large part of the year. Then we rarely experience the prolonged intense heat of arid continental summer days to dry out the timber.

There's more to it than that, of course:

Depletion of timber resources prior to the Victorian building boom; Timber framed buildings increasingly seen as a fire hazard since 1666; Historic reluctance of insurers & mortgage providers to back non-traditional construction (which is what timber had become by 1900); Ready availabillity of fuel (coal) and suitable clay for brick making; Perhaps it is just easier to build a compact house (and especially terraces) to suit restricted building plot sizes in brick.

Reply to
jim_in_sussex

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