Water softner for shower

[Sue Mortimore]

We have just built a shower room on the third floor of a building we own. The hot water is heated by a tank which does the entire building and the cold water is direct mains.

We are using a monsoon 4bar pressure pump to increase the hot water flow, which has its own supply from the tank on the ground floor.the cold is mains fed

The shower works a treat but as we are in a hard water area the build up of scale on the shower doors and wall is quite noticeable.

can some recommend a way of softening the water for the shower only, the pipe work is plastic by the way

further question?

does the scale come from both the cold and hot water or is one worse than the other for scale.

TIA

[Andy Hall]

The pipework doesn't really influence this.

The only completely effective solution to this is to install an ion exchange water softener. That will provide softened water for as many outlets as you like. You then normally leave one cold outlet (kitchen tap typically) as a direct supply from the mains.

You could arrange for the plumbing just to feed the shower with softened water, but it seems a bit pointless when you could cover the entire house.

Other side benefits are that detergent and shampoo consumption are reduced by a third to a half and hair etc. washing is much easier and better.

Another option that may just about work, at least in reducing the scale deposits is a phosphate dosing device such as a Combimate. This would have a positive effect on the shower head not becoming bunged up, but probably won't leave the shower as deposit free as softened water.

The so called electronic or magnetic water conditioners are a complete chocolate teapot for this application and probably most others.

There are two forms of hardness in water, temporary and permanent.

Salts related to temporary hardness are deposited out of the water during heating whiuch is why hot water cylinders become caked with scale. Permanent hardness is always there.

.andy

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[Sue Mortimore]

I was thinking of a electrolytic scale inhibitor which is fitted in the pipes themselves(do these come under the chocolate teapot heading)

This would have to be fitted to the incoming mains ,before it branches off to the hot water tank and mains fed cold ?

It not a house its a lareg geogian building whith over 20 bedrooms. so it would be quite a major operation. The scale is not bad in the other rooms.

[Andy Hall]

If you do a Google Groups search on this newsgroup you will find that this subject comes up about every month to two. We have one individual who has one of these and claims that it works. He is in a minority of almost one. Pretty much everybody else who has bought one reports no, little or inconsistent results.

It can go where you like, really. If you just wanted to cover the shower then you would need to soften the cold water going to it, plus all the hot water unless you had separate water heating for the shower.

This does make it difficult, because you also have the running costs from the use of salt in the softener.

.andy

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[IMM]

Fit a phosphor de-scaler on the mains supply, so will do the whole house, hot and cold. It can't be on the drinking water and a double check valve needs to be between it and the drinking supply. Available from B&Q, Homebase etc for about £45 with £15 per year for the cartridge. It will not remove existing scale, so use Viakal for that.

Both, but hot is far worse.

[IMM]

I have one of these and it works. There is a current thread on this topic with a number of people having success.

[IMM]

Phosphor descalers come in 15mm and 22mm. How many bathrooms?

[IMM]

You should Goggle a bit more, "many" claim they work. I have come across many very large industrial units that work very well in hopitals and the likes.

Mine is an Aqua Dial, who make salt softeners and phosphor de-scalers too.

[IMM]

Your eyesight is failing.

[Andy Hall]

Do you think that some snake oil from the shop where you bought your Water Wonder would help?

.andy

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[IMM]

Homebase the shop. The make is Aqua Dial. Isn't your salt softener Aqua Dial? They probably have this oil on the parts list.

[Charles M Atkinson]

are a complete

others.

thread on this topic

Don't be coy -- what's the title of the thread?

[Andy Hall]

That's current enough. If you were to search using keywords of "IMM" and "water" you will get about 3000 articles. Qualify further with "magnetic" or similar and it comes down to about 160 in several threads which all tend to be very similar. Generally the ratio of bad to good experience is at least 10:1 as measured by the number of posts for and against.

I am always suspicious of products which claim wonderful things, backed up with pseudo-science and a money back guarantee. The price point is usually at the level where a significant proportion of people who buy won't bother to return the product when it doesn't work.

Most domestic water softeners will easily fit the space under a sink.

Fine, but the main purpose for that is to prolong the life of appliances that heat the water. For little more cost than a "water conditioner", one can buy a polyphosphate doser which definitely does this job, so I don't see the point of messing around with something that might or might not do anything and there being little way of knowing until the damage is done.

That's an economic no-brainer. In one of the threads I posted some data about the savings in detergents and shampoos that are made by using ion-exchange softened water. Overall this easily covers the cost of the salt and may even make a small contribution to the capital cost of the equipment - not that that is large anyway.

.andy

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[IMM]

Not so, in those who have actually used them, unlike yourself and other windbags.

Mine works. These are used extensively in industry, where I first came across them about 25 years ago.

And take a useful cupboard.

And so you should be.

[Andy Hall]

In fact I did try one some years ago and found that it didn't work even to the extent of making a difference to a kettle filled from a nearby tap.

This is complete misinformation. All of the references to industrial use are for closed recirculating systems with proportionately much larger conditioners than would be used domestically.

That was an example. There are plenty of other options.

For what reason? Certainly nothing economic or even ecological when the reduction in detergent consumption is considered.

If you're worried about lifting, then there are now 5kg and 10kg packs of salt.

.andy

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[IMM]

I don't believe you Andy. Also the better makes work better. Surprise, surprise, as Cilla says.

That you have read, and not had contact with.

Go away!! They are larger for hospitals???

[IMM]

What damage?? No plumbing is involved. An old lady can fit one.

[Andy Hall]

.

That's your affair.

What defines "better make" and why does this allegedly make a difference?

So give me a substantiable reference to where this is used industrially in an environment where the water is not being circulated.

.andy

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[IMM]

See this recent thread on Google. "Electronic Water Descalers / softeners"

[Andy Hall]

You might think so, but don't forget that the volume of detergents is reduced.

Have a look at this article

found several others which suggest much the same - that increased sodium concentration within reason is beneficial to bacteria growth, and that provided the tank is sized adequately for the water resulting from regeneration then there is not a problem.

.andy

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