Father-in-law wishes to install one of the above in order to, I understand, reduce the scale build up in the water pipes and on the taps in his house.
He has found vast amounts of literature about conditioners and softeners as individual items i.e. how to install, where to install, runing costs etc but nothing which tells him the pros and cons and what each system is designed to do. FWIW he is astounded to find that Which? has written nothing (ever) about these devices.
Water Conditioners claim to reduce scale by magic. They don't.
Water Softeners virtually eliminate the calcium carbonate (limescale) in the water by swapping the carbonate ion for the chloride ion. As a result scale is removed, the water feels more "luxurious", soap forms a lather more easily and doesn't form scum, you need less detergent in your washing machine, and you don't need salt in your dishwasher. I would never go back to hard water.
Ion exchange softeners work. They cost from around =A3350ish plus installation. You need to tip in a sack of salt at regular intervals; the consumption depends on how frequently they regenerate or your water consumption. Lots of data posted previously, search the archives.
Electronic/magnetic water conditioners are claimed to work, mostly by the sellers. The effects are dubious. Most sensible posters here believe they don't work. Dr Drivel believes that they do work. Lots of data posted previously, search the archives.
Close. It swaps the calcium &/or magnesium base ions for sodium, but who cares if they work. Which they do.
They *possibly* work, as discussed in another thread.
Not true.
Detergent is no more effective with softened water. All softened water does is allow the detergent to produce more bubbles. As you'll remember from 'O' level chemistry bubbles don't have a cleaning effect!
The public equate "more bubbles"="better cleaning" and this is simply not true.
Manufacturers make detergents that bubble simply because the public prefer them!
Southern Water confirm this fact:
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"While hard water does not produce as much lather this has NO EFFECT on the performance of soaps and washing detergents".
In other words it's all "spin" circulated by the softener manufacturers..
True.
Two other points to bear in mind if you have a softener fitted is that you must have an unsoftened drinking water tap installed, due to the possible increased levels of sodium. In addition you have to have a compulsory water meter installed as they use excess water during regeneration.
You are using "fact" as if Southern Water have no need for spin.
I can assure you that soft water does not require as much detergent for the same cleaning power. Part of the detergent is used up in softening the water.
That is only the advice of teh water companies. There is not a health reason for it. Having said that, all tap water tastes pretty disgusting anyway.
Not true. The only requirement is that the supplier is notified that one has been fitted. It doesn't necessarily mean that they will insist on a meter. It does mean that the householder no longer has the right not to have a meter according to DEFRA.
Only insofar as they modify the type of precipitation that calcium carbonate crystallizes out at for a short way downstream of the device.
That my prevent e.g. hard scale forming in a local pump, but it doesn't soften the water, and nor does it prevent scale forming elsewhere.
Incorrect by and large. A lot depends on the detergent though. You can easily run a test if you have softened water by getting your hands oily, and washing them first in softened, and then in unsoftened water using e.g washing up liquid.
And they work whether or not the eater is softened.
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Its not. Soaps particularly react with calcium carboante to form an insoluble scum that does not do what soap is designed to do - allow grease and fats to become water soluble.
I don't know where southern water got their 'facts' from but they are plain WRONG.
It is CONVENTIONAL to have this, I do not believe the regulations INSIST, and in any case, there is more sodium carbonate in moist mineral water than in softened tap water, and more salt in a bag of peanuts than
Water Conditioners - Mostly fall into one of three types.
Polyphosphate dosers - Work much the same as Calgon powder and add small amounts of a chemical to the water to reduce scale formation. They do not "soften" the water. Need replenishment of the chemical periodically (about every 6-12 months). This is straightforward and usually involves just replacing a small cartridge.
Magnetic - No evidence they work in single pass (domestic) environments but some that they do in industrial recirculation systems.
Electronic - No evidence they work at all, none have ever been shown to work in properly conducted tests. No credible theory why or how they could work.
None of these soften the water and none will significantly (or at all) affect scale deposits on tap outlets. The Polyphosphate dosers will reduce scale build up in pipes.
Water companies tend to encourage use of any of the above as irrespective of whether they work or not none increase water consumption which means the water companies don't have to worry quite so much about repairing all their leaking pipes.
Water Softeners - One of three types
Electrolysis - almost unknown in the UK.
Reverse Osmosis - Rarely used except where water purification is also needed (eg for treating river or well water).
Ion Exchange - the traditional unit where an ion exchange resin is used to swap calcium for sodium. The result is water which has most of the properties of water in soft water regions. Increases the amount of sodium in the water and the kitchen tap is normally plumbed to take water from before the softener or a separate untreated water tap is provided. In the hardest water area in the UK the amount of Sodium added by softening if you obtained all your drinking and cooking water via the softener is somewhat less than you would get from eating 1 slice of bread.
If you have a combi boiler you need to watch the maximum flow rate as many water softeners won't cope. Some combi boiler manufacturers also recommend against using a water softener with their boilers.
Softeners come in three types - those that regenerate on a timer at a set time (usually at night), those that meter the water and regenerate when needed and those that have twin resin containers and switch between them. Conventional advertising wisdom ranks these in the order listed with the twin cylinder being "best". The fact it is also the most expensive is of course as irrelevant as a peerage to a nulabor donor. In practice there is very little difference between the efficacy, salt or water usage of the three types.
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is a comparison of some softeners water and salt consumption.
Most water softeners use resins produced by 3M (even those that claim to manufacture there own usually simply repackage 3M resins). Changes in the law in California where the water is very hard, softeners are common and water consumption is very high, have led to more efficient resins being produced but few have found their way to the UK where most manufacturers still use the older and less efficient resins.
Prices rarely bear any relationship to quality and almost none to capability but a lot to marketing. Companies such as Kinetico will give the salesman about GBP250 for selling you a GBP1000 machine so selling tends to be fairly high pressure. Much of the information on manufacturers and retailers web sites is best described as overstated.
It pays to shop around as the markup is so high. If you can find a supplier fairly well down the supply line a unit costing GBP900 at retail should be obtainable for about GBP250-300. Even eBay has some small suppliers selling new equipment at quite reasonable prices.
Plumbing in can be a bit complicated depending where the existing water main is and where pipes run. You should spend some time planning where the thing is going to go bearing in mind you need to get salt to it fairly frequently (once a week or more).
Beware of much information on US sites. The Americans have significantly different systems and issues, for example high iron content is a major and common problem in many US borehole wells but almost irrelevant in the UK.
- Soft water from a softener contains sodium carbonate rather than calcium/magnesium carbonate, the hardness.
- You use less soap as soap is not being consumed by reacting with the hard water. Basic hard water reaction is sodium stearate (soap) + calcium carbonate (hardness) -> calcium stearate (scum) + sodium carbonate. Soft water contains sodium carbonate and doesn't react with the soap, so all the soap goes into cleaning rather than scum making.
- You don't have to have a water meter.
- You don't have to ask the water company.
This misinformation about asking water companies comes from Google and not reading which country the rules apply to. Many US states forbid the fitting of ion exchange water softeners as the excess chloride discharged by water softeners (calcium chloride) is discharged into rivers and ends up being used to irrigate crops causing crop failures due to excess chloride ions. In UK this is not an issue as there is little irrigation using river water, some chloride is removed in sewerage works and it all ends up being discharged into the sea which happens to be full of chloride ions.
In fact you do have to tell the water company that you have a softener (according to DEFRA). This also negates your right not to have a meter. This means that the water company *may* insist that you have one.
Mine (Southern Water) doesn't as I phoned up asking for the water hardness as I was fitting a water softener, they put me through to technical (or some such thing) who asked me what I wanted to know and was given the figure 19 Clark in my case...hard...
Can't see why you need a meter, mine discharges 16l of water every couple of days, thats really only two loo flushes, and the fact that you can get away with less water and soap usage saves money (but savings probably don't cover the £500 cost of the softener, but we didn't fit it to save money)
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