Water Heating Question

[Doctor Evil]

All wound up.

Then be quiet and learn.

[Doctor Evil]

You think washing machine are funny? Wow. Do you look into the round glass hole and think it's the telly? Yes, you do.

[Doctor Evil]

If youn can be silly all time then he can occasionally.

[Andrew Gabriel]

They simply don't use enough hot water nowadays to worry about it. Often the water in the pipework won't even have run hot before the washing machine is filled. They never use much hot anyway -- initial fill is normally a mix aimed at 30-35C and it's very important it doesn't overshoot which wrecks the enzyme action in the washing detergent. Don't bother with a hot feed at all unless the pipe run from the cylinder or combi is short -- you're just wasting the hot water heating the pipework.

Hot fill on a dishwasher is bad news (as the instructions usually say). Hot water will cook protein deposits before the detergent can act on them, and once cooked into long chain molecules, the detergent can't work on them -- you're pretty much just down to the water jetting action for cleaning it off from that point.

[Doctor Evil]

Please?

I have ahot and cold fill integrated Electrolux. 3 years old and it takes in hot water, and lost of it. On economy mode, If I recall rightly, it just takes in the water from the system at that temp, and heat up to the min. Cleans very well.

They don't. Neffs can be either and they say "preferable" to be on cold fill only. I have never come across any Neff that doesn't wash properly with a hot only fill. Also the wash time is fraction of cold only fill. There is nothing worse than having a dinner party and the dishwasher takes an eternity.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Please give an approximate cost of having such a pump and associated plumbing fitted, its projected life, and the energy it will consume?

And how much heat will be wasted from the losses in the extra pipes and the pump itself?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

And the pump uses electricity. Unless Drivel has a source of '1/4 price gas' driven ones. Then there's the not inconsiderable cost of installation. And the replacement cost of the pump every few years. Oh - and the noise.

He's getting more barking by the minute.

[BigWallop]

Rinsing in hot water as well? Where is that economical? I'd much rather heat just the small amount of water in the appliance than heat a full tank or run a boiler for that length of time. Seems like more of a waste than a saving.

[Doctor Evil]

Read back on the thread.

[Doctor Evil]

Are you going to fit one? Do all this yourself you lazy sod.

[<me9]

Keeps the contents warm so you need less electric to dry off the plates.

[Doctor Evil]

Boy is this one dumb. A pipe thermostat only circulates until up to temp.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In a one bedroom flat? How quaint.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Couldn't you find a better way to entertain your guest?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

So the pump doesn't use *any* electricity? Is this the same as your 100% efficient boilers? And have you patented the process?

[Doctor Evil]

I could get them to do turn of tango dancing, but I don't like to show them up. Do you toss the electric cabers on the concrete out in the sink estate for them? How entertaining?

[Doctor Evil]

Nope.

[Andy Hall]

Don't be a twit. The volume of hot water used is small in proportion to the total anyway and modern machines use very little water during the wash phase. This is because it has been "rediscovered" that tumbling clothes against one another with very little water and certainly minimal suds gets them cleaner than the older types which used lots of water and suds. this principle, of course, is based on the time honoured one derived from slapping clothes on the rocks by the river.

Modern fabrics and detergents sold in Europe assume the low water volume, low temperature principle in washing machines.

If the hot water is derived from a cylinder or the 21st century answer to the geyser, a combi, then unless the cylinder is very close to the washing machine or the combi has a store the machine won't have taken in any significant amount of hot water through the hot inlet before it is full as a result of the level switch being satisfied. Hence there will be greater waste of energy because of the standing loss in the pipes.

Another of your pointless corner cases.

This is complete and utter nonsense. Virtually all dishwashers sold in Europe are cold fill only nowadays.

There are several reasons for this, but the main ones are:

- Putting hot water directly over items covered in protein based foods will tend to set the protein and make it very difficult to remove. If the water is gradually warmed, then the results are far better.

- Dishwashers and detergents sold in Europe work on the basis of contact time with the items. Use of hot water shortens wash cycles on a lot of machines and again reduces cleaning performance.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Then it's even more stupid in a studio apartment?

Whatever. It must be really tiny since you don't have space for an airing cupboard.

[Andy Hall]

Is this the model with the integrated combi?