[VOT] Argument about astrology

[pinnerite]

Yesterday my brother-in-law and I agreed to differ over the suject. He is a retired scientist and beieves that science has proved that astrology is a load of rubbish.

I probably would have been likewise inclned excerpt for someting I saw many years ago on BBC2 that made my hair stand on end.

This was in 405 line monochrome.

Three astrologers were given the baic details of a man's birth and invited to drawhis astrlogical chart and interpret the results.

Two produced laughable results. The third though, a very sensible sounding lady set out what she believed how candidates life would probably have gone. She was spot on. It was uncanny.

I had been hopin that that the recording of that broadcast might have been saved and posted on YouTube but so far I haven't been able to find it.

What's the best way o tryng to get hold of it?

[Martin Brown]

Pretty much. The obstretician's paunch exerts far more influence on the new born than any of the planets in the solar system.

The astrologers were astronomers of old and there were (and still are) some seasonal variations in birth rate and weight at birth. eg.

Beyond that it is all about making plausible sounding "predictions" that people can interpret as true if they want to believe.

It will rain or go dark before morning. That sort of thing. Essentially a statement that appears to predict something but is completely uninformative.

I'd try a seance if I were you.

[Dave Plowman (News]

Well, if it was spot on, it was history. And no way of finding out if she already knew it.

If they'd made predictions for the future - and those proved accurate years down the line, a different matter.

[Andy Burns]

Can't see the month, let alone the day you're born having any influence, but maybe what season you're born in does, even if only for what age you are when you join school?

[alan_m]

You need to watch

[Owain Lastname]

Babies being born at certain times would probably - before supermarkets and the welfare state - be warmer and fed better.

Owain

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

I think you have answered your own question. One person may not be using astrology as much as intuition if they had met the person. It also depended on a lot more detailed stuff than just the sun sign. There are scientific reasons why people born at certain times and periods grow up with different needs and understandings of life. Whether any of that has any real bearing of constellations, which are after all just a construct given to a celestial view, or movements of planets is very unlikely I'd say. Brian

[billy bookcase]

The next day's racing results would be a good start.

Then after collecting the winnings from the bookies, it's out with the crystal ball and back to the day job.

bb

[Jeff Layman]

Over twenty years ago I was in business class on a flight from New York to London. Sitting next to me was a woman - I guess 50 - 55 years old - very well dressed and wearing a lot of jewellery. She was using Word on a laptop. The document she was working on was a typical horoscope that you find in the daily papers. She had the usual headings of the Signs of the Zodiac, and beneath each one was the "prediction" she was working on. What amused me was that not only were these predictions the product of a fertile mind only (she did not refer to anything else to create the predictions), but that having completed the twelve, she randomly cut and paste them from one sign to another until she seemed happy with the result!

[Theo]

Old copies of the Radio Times have been digitised:

can be searched. For example, might this be it: Theo

[Pamela]

Aparently there's some minor incidental connection:

"The influence of season and ambient temperature on birth outcomes"

American magician James Randi spent his life debunking outrageous claims charlatans made about the paranormal, etc.

He wrote "The Truth About Uri Geller" and a film about him is on Amazon Prime Movies called "Honest Liar".

[Rex Jones]

pinnerite [e-mail] wrote

Just a fluke. I bet that individual's life was very average.

[jkn]

Not to answer your question about 'where to get hold of it', but:

part of the 'devil in the details of this is: how are you measuring "laughable results" and "uncannily spot on"? Part of the art of making a reading is saying things that can be interpreted as 'spot on'.

Years ago I nonchalantly picked up a Birthday card in a shop with my 'Birth Sign' in it. I idly read the description ... and like you, the hairs at the back of my neck stood on end. It said things that I knew to be true of myself, and had never spoke to anyone. It was quite a humbling thing ... to watch me, as a human 'pattern-making machine', actually feel myself making an associate to *me*, from a collection of statements that actually apply to every human on the planet.

Radio 4 has a dramatised documentary at the moment about a 'reformed psychic' (from way back, in the States) who spent the rest of his time revealing the tricks of his previous trade. Not exactly the same thing as astrology, but close.

This guy is also worth a watch:

[pinnerite]

Thank you. Sadly the example was from 1963 and i think too early.

Alan

[pinnerite]

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I forgot to add something else about that program.

The birth dates of doctors in the northern and the southern hemispheres was graphed. It showed two shallow "alps". The northern hemisphere's peak was May. The southern hemisphere's was in November.

Oh and the subject of the chart exercise mentioned earlier had been in the Royal Navy. The astrologer said that she would say from her impressions that in civilian life he woud still want to do someting stimulating and exciting. he did he was a diver. So much for bland.

Alan

[Max Demian]

In the case of "Sun" signs, that is to say which sign of the zodiac the Sun was in when you were born, they are out by almost one whole sign; If you think you are Pisces you are actually Aries I think. This is because you can't actually see the stars when the Sun is out, so they calculate it based on the equinox, which has shifted about a month since the signs were set up due to precession.

Astrologers don't seem to care about this error.

[Jethro_uk]

It's interesting that although astrology has no basis in science, it can still be of use.

In much the same way that although black magic is a crock of the highest order, the warnings Dennis Wheatley gave in the introduction to his books were based in fact. Dabbling in black magic can be dangerous. Mainly because it brings you into contact with people who *do* believe it.

[Jethro_uk]

?

[Colin Bignell]

Did they also graph the total numbers of births in each month? If those also peaked in the same months, about nine months after the start of Autumn, when nights are getting longer, it would be reasonable to assume that any profession would show the same pattern.

Not much guesswork in assuming that somebody who has served in the Forces is likely to look for a stimulating and exciting job after leaving.

[Spike]

When he was a young man, Douglas Bader was persuaded by some friends to consult a seaside fortune teller. After the consultation, the lady asked if he would sign her book; she said it was a book she kept of clients of hers that were going to be famous. One name in there was that of a young naval lieutenant called Beatty.

Wikipedia on Bader:

Wikipedia on Beatty: