Just wondered what the views are of those who have been through this before. I am in the latter stages of buying a 4 bed Victorian detached which has been extended. The structural survey has come back showing rising damp in the lower walls of 2 downstairs reception rooms. I am a novice when it comes to 100+ year old properties.
The Victorian part of the house has no damp proof course from what we can make out. Is this a concern and should I get one put in?
I have a damp proof surveyor coming to look at the property on Wed - though I know he'll say various pieces of work need doing.
Some advice I have read says that Victorian properties are damp period and you should be wary of going over the top and doing unnecessary work....
I'll be surprised if there is no DPC. Perhaps it's buried. Normally, you'll get a "thick layer" of mortar between courses of bricks, containing slates which make up the impermeable bit. Dig down near the wall somewhere and see what you find.
Death, taxes, damp-proof surveyors...
They do not have to be damp, although some have damp problems. Do not go OTT until you really know what you've got and what the issues are. Leave everything until you've thought about it, pref. sevearl times.
I think the advice you had is good but without knowing the extent it is difficult to comment - if the house is normally heated and aired it may be fine. Is the damp noticeable when you walk into the room? Is the decor stained? Are the skirtings sound or rotten?
You could check for a slate damp course - dig outside a little in case the ground has risen.
Question your surveyor too - see what he/she thinks about the extent of the problem.
I agree completely - a bit of damp never hurt anyone. The only thing is, if you are getting a mortgage the building society (or whoever) might insist on a damp proof course. I think a chemical DPC can usually be installed quite cheaply.
I wouldn't take any advice from a damp proof surveyor if he has any interest in the answer - I mean if you are going to employ him to put things right.
Most "experts" in damp prevention have graduated from selling second hand cars.
In message , dawson snipped-for-privacy@btopenworld.com writes
Correct!! If your only concerns after a a structural survey is a bit of rising damp, then you have a house in excellent condition, (or a crap surveyor ).
Dont let it stop you buying the house you want. A little bit of damp never hurt anyone.
Long while ago I lived in a victorian property that had damp, went down the cellar and it revealed a bad case of fungi on the walls and joist resulting from the damp.
Because if there is damp above then its best to inspect the cellar as well
I guess I am assuming that a structural survey is a pretty thorough survey, and the surveyor would have been unlikely to miss damp, (of concern), in the cellar.
In fact - given your argument, it is probably more important to inspect the sub floor if there is no cellar, than the cellar if there is one.
Surveyors usually inspect cellars, but rarely inspect sub floors.
You can almost be guaranteed that someone will find "damp" somewhere in just about any house. Often the claim of "rising damp" will be made. In reality this is actually fairly rare, and usually there is a more direct cause if you look carefully. So check all gutters, and downpipes in the area. Then look at the ground level - check it has not been raised above the DPC. Look for covered up air bricks as well.
Most Victorian places will have a slate DPC. Unless the walls have been cracking up all over the place this will still be there, and still made of slate! (i.e. failure of a slate DPC is unlikely). It isn't uncommon to find path levels raised above it though.
Hmmm, be afraid ;-)
Let me paraphrase the report for you:
1) Inject chemical DPC all along walls x, y, and z
2) Hack off all plaster up to 1.2m high, and re-render with sand and cement containing "new wonder additive" product X that only we can supply because its our proprietary formulation.
3) Re skim and leave ready for redecoration (*by you*).
For that we will give you a 10 year guarantee so long as you agree to fix any leaking pipes, gutters, downpipes etc. Lower the level of path Y, and dig soil away from wall X. BTW you may want to consult a timber treatment specialist.
Rough translation:
We will come in and bollox up the natural moisture management of you nice Victorian property. We will guarantee this will fix your problem only on the condiftion that *you* actually do all the real work that is required to fix the actuall cause once we have gone. The guarantee we leave is a good one as long as the company is still trading when you need it. (BTW. you will notice that we are called Damp Cowboys (2003) Ltd. That is because we routinely fold the company every two to three years and open a new one that takes on the previous staff, and assets of the defunct company, but not the liabilities). Oh, and some jobs for the boys in our timber treatment devision!
Cynical, me?
They are designed to deal with moisture in different ways to new places. Remember also that dampness is not only something outside that wants to get it, it is also generated in equal measure inside (cooking, washing, breathing) and needs to get out.
Older properties are traditionally built from materials that are (more) water permeable than modern buildings. and are designed to allow this passage of moisture. So water going out, can evaporate from the soft lime mortar (hence not leaving any salt deposits on the bricks). Water coming in can evaporate from a large wall surface area (lime and horse hair plaster that will not fall apart when it gets a bit wet). It requires that the place is "lived in" to work (i.e. heating and movement of air) so empty properties will often appear a little damp. It also required background ventilation (air bricks, plus other drafts normally associated with older places).
A problem often comes when someone changes a part of the setup without taking into account the effect on the whole. For example applying some sort of waterproof coating to the outside brickwork, or re plastering with a gypsum based plaster, or re-pointing with a cement based mortar.
I had a similiar problem 20 years ago when I bought the house that I am still in.
Surveyor for building society came out and said I had rising damp, in
2 areas of the house, that needed looking into. But they still gave me the loan.
I had a Dampproofing company out who checked all the walls for moisture, and said they all wanted treating at £???? thousand pounds, plaster, skirting off etc.
My dad, advised that there was nothing wrong with with the DPC, as there was 2 courses of blue bricks and nothing can beat that.
The bottom line was
Area Nos 1 -
Rainwater downpipe was blocked up with moss etc, and the rainwater was building up in the downpipe backing up to the guttering, and then overflowing down the wall. New guttering and downpipe and a cleanout solved that problem.
Area Nos 2 -
Cast Iron soil pipe from upstairs toilet was cracked at the back of the pipe. Water when flusing sprayed all over the wall. New soil pipe solved the problem.
These problems must have been occuring for over 10 years, but why did the dampproof company say all the walls needed doing ??
Well all I can say, is the house had not been lived in for approx 1 year, whilst probate was going thru. Thus no heating was on. The previous owners were OAP's and only lived and heated one room.
I have lived here for over 20 years now, and have had no rising damp.
But then again this is only my personal experience.
salesmen use electrical conductance-type meters to "diagnose" rising damp. These are labeled "moisture meters", but they do not really measure moisture. They measure electrical conductance, and will give a reading on any building material which allows an electric current to flow through it.
My experience of checking these electrical conductance meters are they are only as good as the calibration of them. So always ask the surveyor, when was that meter last calibrated. If it was more than a year ago, tell him to get it calibrated. Its always good for a laugh to see there faces.
These meters are seriously affected by any chemicals in the moisture being detected. That includes wood. If the wood has been chemically treated for woodworm, rot, etc etc time period or age of chemical treatment, will give different readings for plain untreated timber.
3 bed 1897 slate DPC house that had 'rising damp' when I bought it 26 years ago (for £13,600). I repaired water goods, lowered ground levels and render that was breeching the DPC and we haven't seen any damp since ;-)
I'd amend the above to read "...The guarantee we leave will look like a good one, but rest assured that in the unlikely event that the company is still trading when you need it, we will guarantee absolutely that we will be able to wriggle out of responsibility for any ensuing problems you may have, using any and all means at our disposal"
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