TOT: email to Tesco 14th May

[Bill Wright]

Sent on the 14th May. Got an acknowledgement, but nothing since.

Dear Sirs,

Today I bought a walking frame from Tesco Extra (Doncaster). The price was £32.94. The item was shown on the till receipt as being liable for VAT. I asked the checkout lady about VAT relief on the item as set out in HM Customs and Excise Notice 701/7. I was expecting to fill in the Eligibility Declaration by a Disabled Person (Section 10 of Notice

701/7) which all retailers selling disability equipment should offer to customers as a matter of course. This allows the retailers to sell the goods at zero-rate VAT. The checkout lady charged the item with 20% VAT included but referred me to Customer Service for a refund. At Customer Service I was given a VAT receipt and told that I should apply to the ?Inland Revenue? for the refund. This is of course wrong. To quote Notice 701/7: ?Section 2.2. Do customers obtain a refund of VAT from Customs? No. Zero-rating works by the supplier not charging VAT.?

The system for allowing disability equipment to be sold at zero-rate VAT if the purchaser can show evidence of eligible long-term disability is well known and until today I thought it was in universal use. I suggest that Tesco investigates its systems in this area. Clearly a major retailer not operating the VAT relief scheme for disabled people is unsatisfactory.

Meanwhile, could I have my £5.49 back?

Attached is the till roll and VAT receipt.

Regards

Bill Wright

[Tim Lamb]

In message , Bill Wright writes

Very good. Unfortunately it has given me a vivid mental image of you parking the walking frame while you set up a ladder to fit an aerial:-)

[Bob Eager]

Time for BBC Watchdog. They'd love that one. And it should be easy to fix, so they might actually be able to do it.

[polygonum]

Pillocks.

I bought a small item the other day specifically for disabled use. One online retailer offered it at around £10 assuming I did the VAT claim - plus P&P - total £14 to 15. The shop I used sold it at around £6 without any VAT mentioned. Bought two at under £17 including P&P. Arrived already!

[fred]

In article , Bill Wright writes

Give it a f'ckn rest, this is not uk.opined.rant

Best regards,

[Peter Parry]

What is to fix? The scheme does not apply to equipment alone but to purchasers and equipment together, is entirely voluntary and beset by conditions wee willy forgot to mention such as "It does not include a frail elderly person who is otherwise able-bodied or any person who is only temporarily disabled or incapacitated, such as with a broken limb." or "It is only the designer or manufacturer who is able to determine whether the goods qualify for zero-rating. "

It requires the buyer to furnish a written declaration claiming entitlement to VAT relief. Such a declaration should contain sufficient information to demonstrate that a customer fulfils all the criteria for eligibility. The declaration should be separate, or clearly distinguishable from, any order form or invoice against which the goods or services are supplied.

It also does not apply to goods and services supplied to: an in patient or resident of a hospital or nursing home;

"Supplies of goods and services are only zero-rated when all of the following conditions are met:

the customer is eligible to purchase supplies at the zero rate - see Section 3; the goods are for the personal or domestic use of the customer - see paragraph 3.5; the goods and services are eligible to be supplied at the zero rate - see paragraph 2.4.!"

Goods are not ?designed for use solely by disabled people? if the manufacturer makes no such claim for the goods. A walking frame is not designed for use solely by disabled people as it is also commonly used by people with limb injuries which will heal.

The supplier is responsible for ensuring that all the conditions for zero-rating are met and many chose not to bother.

[Bill Wright]

So you think Tesco want to be known as the shop that forces disabled people to pay unnecessary VAT on disability equipment? Voluntarily?

and beset by

It's childish to use belittling nicknames.

I've been using this VAT exemption scheme for years. Every disability shop uses it. It's standard practice. The two disabled people I look after both comply with all the terms and conditions that you copied into your message.

Bill

[Bill Wright]

That wasn't a rant. I posted it because I know there are quite a few people here who either look after a disabled person or are themselves disabled. I thought it was a matter of general interest. The post was clearly marked 'TOT'. So bugger off.

Bill

[Brian Gaff]

You are right. Big organisations that tend to sell to both disabled and non disabled but are known for their disability services, like RNIB can do this, indeed once you have filled out a form and its on their computers you are not asked for the vat as long as the device is elidgable. Its not rocket sscience it just needs the correct system to be in place.

Brian

[Brian Gaff]

Yes, I suspect the excuse will be that the eligible party has to be the purchaser. For example, If a local authority buys disabled equipment and supplies them to people, vat is charged. Normally one can then only reclaim via the customes folk. Its a big pain in the backside. If you have the person with you then its often no issue. but on the other hand, someone at Tesco might have mentioned this if this is indeed why it was not settled.

Brian

[Brian Gaff]

I can actually recall, many years ago when this issue came up in a disabled magazine. There was a picture of a really puffed out person wheeling a bed with a person in it all wirded up to life support gear and a caption saying, will you agree the recipient is disabled now then?

Brian

[Bill]

In message , Brian Gaff writes

I felt a bit sorry for the RNIB recently Brian. I bought a speaking watch from them for my mother, via their web site. The watch arrived within a few days and I thought no more about it.

I then started getting emails from them, which I assumed were advertising, then a month after the purchase I had a phone call, apparently their website was faulty and had not taken my money, but had told them, initially, that it had. "Could they please have their money?" !!!

I didn't think about the VAT implications of the purchase, with the amount involved I will not bother chasing it up, but I will remember it in future.

So thanks to the other Bill for raising the point, no matter how "Off Topic"

:-)

[polygonum]

Sorry the person is too disabled to get to your shop, Mr Tesco. :-(

[polygonum]

And what does your mother think of the watch? Am thinking of something for my mother - but her deafness might mean it does not work for her.

[Peter Parry]

It doesn't force anyone to do anything, you are perfectly free to go elsewhere. With or without VAT Tesco are not a particularly cheap supplier of such aids. Also as it happens Tesco do operate the scheme so the shop misinformed you, call 0845 600 4411 for details. (0800

505555 may also work).

Whether any supplier chooses to operate the zero rating scheme is up to them. If you have an entirely electronic sales system and few sales of disability aids to exempt people it can be expensive as it is a bureaucratic scheme whereby each sale entitlement to exemption must be checked and the electronic sale must somehow be tied up with a paper declaration which in turn must be stored for several years.

Of course they do, it is central to their business and they include the not insignificant cost of administering it in their often inflated prices. The import price (landed, tax paid) of one particular walking frame I know of in lots of 500 is £9. One mobility supplier sells it for £42, another for £30, both zero rated.

Many other suppliers, for whom VAT free supplies to people with disabilities is an insignificant part of their trade choose not to operate the scheme as it is too expensive and as they are perfectly entitled to do.

[Bill Wright]

The eligible party was with me. However I have bought disability equipment from specialist disability shops and have merely been asked to sign on their behalf.

The situation at Tesco was that they had never heard of the scheme, not that there was some obstacle to its operation.

Bill

[Bill Wright]

'Going elsewhere' is not really what Tesco want, is it?

I priced the item elsewhere and they were competitive.

I'll be interested to get a reply from Tesco then. The brief one I had suggested that the person didn't know of the scheme.

So they can automatically do three-for-two, provide a dynamic price comparison with Sainsburys and Asda on the bottom of your till roll, work out your club points, calculate what discount you'll get on petrol on the way out, etc but they can't program the computers to knock off the VAT? Nonsense!

We use an on-line supplier and although their prices are much lower than the local disability shops they operate the VAT scheme. The reason local disability shops are expensive is because they can be. Many older people do not use the internet, so there's a hang-on of the old pricing methods that used to apply to any specialist items. You don't need to tell me about mark-ups in disability shops. A battery for a scooter that they buy from Chloride in Sheffield at £80 they sell at £160. etc.

Entitled to do so, of course. But it's foolish because it annoys people so they go elsewhere. Incidentally since you say that Tesco do in fact operate the scheme, that actually negates all your arguments about it not being worth their while.

Bill

[Bill Wright]

It wouldn't prove long-term disability.

Bill

[Bob Eager]

I've bought by mail order on behalf of someone and only ben asked to tick a box. This for an item which could be used by non-disabled (a cool bag of sorts).

[Bill]

In message , polygonum writes

She is happy with it. The spoken time is set, as you would set any digital clock with various pushes of buttons to move through the menus, but is not linked to the analogue hands. So it is possible to have the hands showing one thing and the watch saying something different!

As far as the audio quality goes, it is rather lacking in bass, only to be expected due to it's size, but this does make it quite punchy and my father, who wears 2 hearing aids can hear it without an aid.

The watch is no larger than many "normal" watches.

It helps to have it close to an ear, obviously, and as the operation is by pressing a single button this is quite easy and relatively discrete.

For the price it is certainly worth trying.