Thinking about installing a 'Easy Fit ' Split Air Conditioner

As per subject, I am contemplating installing one of these things in my hom e office. I have a 'typical' two bed semi. and was wondering how effective such a unit installed in the spare bedroom office upstairs would be at cool ing the whole house ? I would expect the cool air to drop down the stairs.
I quite like the idea of using it as a heat pump in the winter too !
The units are pre-charged with gas as I understand it and you just have to connect up the pipes. Is this really as easy as it sounds or would it be be tter to get a pro. in to check for leaks and test it all first ?
As I understand it, you don't need planning permission for the outside unit .
Has anyone installed one or are there any other things to consider ?
Simon,
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As per subject, I am contemplating installing one of these things in my home office. I have a 'typical' two bed semi. and was wondering how effective such a unit installed in the spare bedroom office upstairs would be at cooling the whole house ? I would expect the cool air to drop down the stairs.
I quite like the idea of using it as a heat pump in the winter too !
The units are pre-charged with gas as I understand it and you just have to connect up the pipes. Is this really as easy as it sounds or would it be better to get a pro. in to check for leaks and test it all first ?
As I understand it, you don't need planning permission for the outside unit.
Has anyone installed one or are there any other things to consider ?
Simon,
The main thing to consider is that you can get a grant from the government to install one. (Renwable Heat Incentive) Also they make a payment towards the running costs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Heat_Incentive#Domestic_RHI
http://www.rhincentive.co.uk/faqs/category/17/
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On Tuesday, 23 July 2013 19:02:34 UTC+1, harry wrote:

thanks for that, seems like I would have to get it installed by a pro. to claim that though ?
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On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:50:15 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@lycos.co.uk wrote:

Yes it would have to be installed by an MCS acredited installer. But if you have mains gas available that probably rules you out for all RHI stuff.
http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generating-energy/Getting-money-ba ck/Renewable-Heat-Incentive-RHI
"The domestic RHI is a UK Government financial support scheme for renewable heat, targeted at, but not limited to, off gas grid households."
Pretty sure that "but not limited to" is new...
Even if you don't have mains gas I'm also pretty sure that the qualify for an RHI payment the installed technology has to be the primary heat source for the property. So a small aircon unit in a spare bedroom won't qualify...
Another condition is to have GDA done and meet certain insulation/energy saving levels. Even if you do qualify I wouldn't hold your breath, I've been waiting two years for it to happen and it's currently due to launch in "Spring 2014"...
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Dave.
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On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 21:02:31 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

"The details of the domestic Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) were announced by the UK Government on 12 July 2013."
So, yep, that detail will be new - as is the whole thing...
Ta for the link, though. I'll have to look closely at it, since we're off- gas-grid. I don't see any mention of it being primary heat source - we've been gently toying with the idea of ASHP to back up our LPG boiler, or a wood-fired secondary boiler, so it's definitely of interest.
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On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 20:47:52 +0000 (UTC), Adrian wrote:

The whole thing is ancient, I think the previous goverment started the ball rolling... There have been lots of delays, consultations etc and snails pace progress.

You'll need to look at the real criteria, I'm pretty sure that for space heating the use of a fossil derived energy source along side GSHP/ASHP/Biomass isn't allowed. Solar Thermal for principally for hotwater can have fossil for space heating. Unless that has changed, if it has I'll be well peed off.
I notice that they now deduct any RHPP that you've had from the RHI to avoid "double subsidy". Which is almost acceptable provided they back date the RHI to when the system was installed, start payments at the curent rate then apply the RPI increases applicable since installation. I'll be surprised if that happens though.

Go digging, as I said I think you'll have to drop the LPG. Couple of snags with ASHP is that the effiency isn't very good when it's cold and damp say 0 to 5 C, the collector freezes up and has to consume energy defrosting itself. Once the air temp gets below freezing the effciency recovers until about -10 C. Assuming a COP of 3 to get 10 kWhr out the compressor will be 3 kW or there abouts, this might be running for a long time so getting a good electricty tariff is *very* important, there can also be implications on the size of your electricty supply as well. If you have an old 40 A supply that is only 9 kW. Take out 3 kW for the ASHP that leaves you just 6 kW for the whole house, rapid boil kettle & toaster on in the morning? Getting close. OK the main fuse won't go but things are getting towards their rating.
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wrote:

Aha! So you too want to become a parasite as I am accused of?
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On 23/07/2013 21:02, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Solar thermal hot water qualifies for RHI if it starts even if it displaces mains gas. You won't get rich on it, the payments are just about enough to pay the costs. In theory its close to free if you do it on the green deal.
Any heat pump that can cool does not qualify.
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harryagain wrote:

My taxes and utility premiums are paying for this Harry - so why should I pay for someone elses projects via grants?

My taxes and utility premiums being used again - if you want the green energy saving stuff, pay for it out of your own bloody pocket and that *INCLUDES* *NOT* *CLAIMING* F.I.T payments!

My taxes and utility premiums being used again - if you want the stuff, pay for it out of your own bloody pocket.

If a political party had a *GENUINE* manifesto in abolishing all of these grants (including the 6% premiums on my utility bills), renationalising *ALL* the utility companies and then started to construct nuclear power stations and underground gas storage facilities and building new water storage facilities and repairing the pipework - then I would bloody well vote for them - and that would be the first time for a very long time.
Harry, it would not be in my interest to put into print what I personally think of your ideas, so I shall (reluctantly) refrain from doing so.
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You are living in cloud cuckcoo land. It's neccessary to provide these subsidies to get energy use heading the way it needs to go. They will/already are being tapered off as people get used to the idea. If you don't get in the new technology for energy use reduction, you will soon be sat in your house with an overcoat and a hat on at Christmas. You need to do it NOW instead of whinging on you no-hoper.
We can't get rid of the nuclear waste we've got without adding to the pile. If the frack gas pans out, we wn't need gas storage facilities. (We just have to stop the bastards exporting our gas)
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On 23/07/2013 19:02, harryagain wrote:

Since when? The last time I looked you couldn't get any grant on a heat pump that could cool. That was last week.
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On 23/07/2013 18:27, snipped-for-privacy@lycos.co.uk wrote:

Irrespective of the "subsidy" issues, I've been thinking about this too, as are daughter and son-in-law. From experience of them in very basic single story offices (portacabins, almost) I'd expect them to be pretty effective and acceptably quiet.
I've been running my mobile unit with a hose out of the window, but it's bloody noisy.
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As per subject, I am contemplating installing one of these things in my home office. I have a 'typical' two bed semi. and was wondering how effective such a unit installed in the spare bedroom office upstairs would be at cooling the whole house ? I would expect the cool air to drop down the stairs.
I quite like the idea of using it as a heat pump in the winter too !
The units are pre-charged with gas as I understand it and you just have to connect up the pipes. Is this really as easy as it sounds or would it be better to get a pro. in to check for leaks and test it all first ?
As I understand it, you don't need planning permission for the outside unit.
Has anyone installed one or are there any other things to consider ?
Simon,
One thing you need to look out for in these "split" sytems is the joint in the pipework.
The inside and outside bits are joined with two pipes (refrigerant gas and liquid) and some means has to be found to make the joint. If they come "pre-charged" it is a gadget that pierces the seal and joins the pipes by pulling them into a coupling device. There is a small gas leakage when you do this. You need to make sure there are no leaks on this device, they rely on neoprene seals. Soapy water is OK for this.
The conventional method is to braze a pipe joint. But then you would need all the brazing, charging equipment and gas. (And a refrigeration engineer)
The "through the wall" systems are one piece and don't have this problem.
It's good if your system has a gas reservoir, there are always tiny leaks, it takes longer for the leakage to matter. So ask about this,
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On a trip to France a few years ago I saw a split aircon on sale in the local supermarket, for 200 euros. Back then that was about 130ukp. Bargain! I installed it in our bedroom, with the external unit located in the loft. (I did wonder if that was a good idea, but it works fine). The installation instructions were in french, but fairly easy to grasp. The pipework was installed and once the joints were made, you opened a "purge valve" for a fixed time (10 secs I think), and then closed it again. This allowed the precharged refrigerant gas to fill the system. We don't use it all the time, but for spells of hot weather, like the current one, it's marvellous. It also gets used in winter to quickly heat up the bedroom. I dare say having the external unit in the loft space isn't ideal, but it works. The gas seems to be staying where it should, so the joints are sound- it was designed for DIY install. hth
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As per subject, I am contemplating installing one of these things in my home office. I have a 'typical' two bed semi. and was wondering how effective such a unit installed in the spare bedroom office upstairs would be at cooling the whole house ? I would expect the cool air to drop down the stairs.
I quite like the idea of using it as a heat pump in the winter too !
The units are pre-charged with gas as I understand it and you just have to connect up the pipes. Is this really as easy as it sounds or would it be better to get a pro. in to check for leaks and test it all first ?
As I understand it, you don't need planning permission for the outside unit.
Has anyone installed one or are there any other things to consider ?
Simon,
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On 25 Jul,

I have a split unit (portable) on a shelf above the stairs with the outside unit behind a large airbrick in the gable wall in the loft. it has been there for 15 years, cost 1500 originally and has needed topping up once. It consumes about 1200watts and isn't up to current efficiency standards (COP somewhere between 2 and 3) so gives 2-3KW cooling.
It doesn't do much of a job of temperature reduction except close to it, but the humidity reduction is noticeable through most of the house (5 bed well insulated) giving a huge increase in comfort.
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On 23/07/2013 18:27, snipped-for-privacy@lycos.co.uk wrote:

I was having discussions on this subject with Professional company last week. What you want to do will work for one room, but have little effect of rest of house .... Don't think of commercial units capable of reducing temp by 15 degrees or so. A whole house domestic system ... capable of reducing temp by 5 degrees would cost in region of £5k upwards. The issue is running costs ... due to our high Leccy costs, going to be close of £40 a week
The company did a very good job of persuading me not to buy ... they were being honest that capital cost for a couple of weeks per year was not worth it.
I'm now looking at Whole House Fan option (see my post 9th July ) which would make upstairs bedrooms much cooler when needed and cost 90% less than AC to run (plus no pipes etc)
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On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 13:37:27 +0100, Rick Hughes wrote:

Refreshing that they were so honest. As they and you say air con is not really required in this country, it doesn't get *that* hot. In the grand scheme of things 33 C is not hot, I'd hate it, 25 C plus is "too hot" for me but then I live at 1400' with temps at least "one jumper" cooler than sea level.
Most of the problem is people not knowing how to regulate the inside temperature manually. Like close all the windows and draw curtains on the sunny side during the day, then open them (curtains and windows on the north side) when the temperature drops at night.

Depends, if the whole house fan is drawing nice hot air from outside in it won't... But once the heat of the day has gone and you draw air from the north side of the house it may well bring temperatures down a bit quicker than just opening the windows.
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Dave.
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On 27/07/2013 09:13, Dave Liquorice wrote:

o run (plus no pipes etc)

The main thing is in evening sun goes down and with all the heat gain during day .. upstairs is very warm. Not advocating Whole House Fan all year round just for that specific time, when you need to vent the hot air.
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On Thursday, 25 July 2013 13:37:27 UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:

home office. I have a 'typical' two bed semi. and was wondering how effect ive such a unit installed in the spare bedroom office upstairs would be at cooling the whole house ? I would expect the cool air to drop down the stai rs.

to connect up the pipes. Is this really as easy as it sounds or would it b e better to get a pro. in to check for leaks and test it all first ?

unit.





Well I could in theory justify the capital expense to myself, I have come u p with:
1. I often use electrical 'spot heating' in the lounge and office instead of putting the heating on. 2. Would like the dehumidification, especially in winter for when I do my indoor rowing with the windows and doors all closed. ( gets a bit sweaty !) 3. I deserve AC in my home office.. it /WILL/ make me more productive ;-)
I would have thought that any cold air in the upstairs office is going to m ake its way downstairs, I guess it's just a matter of leaving in on long en ough.
The modern inverter systems I am thinking of only use 1KW max., At 15p an h our for occasional use I reckon it should be quite manageable in my house a t least, and the 'free heat ' will off set this too.
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FWIW I have a reversible Aircon unit in the office and works here installed some 20 years ago and still works fine, but JOOI I called Adcock refrigeration who supplied it originally and they were quoting around 1.2 K odd for a complete new installed unit that will be more efficient then the existing Fujitsu one. Now bad really when the original cost more than that!..
Very worth it in this horrible humid hot weather. OK costs a few bob to run but at least I can work properly and it heats in the winter too so all in not bad I reckon....
--
Tony Sayer


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