table saws again

Hi,

I bought the "accurate table saw" book that as recommended and I know I will disappoint you but I bought the B&Q table saw! My excuse was it was just eighty-odd pounds whereas everything else started at one hundred and twenty. I didn't want to spend a lot testing the water.

I'm not sure whether to take back the saw and pay more money though. As you know, I wanted to build a chipboard cupboard, including a section at 45 degrees. I was hoping the table saw would help get straighter lines than using a circular saw.

The problem with the B&Q saw is that although it has two table extensions (one either side) the groove that the fence sits in, only runs along to main part of the table, not along these extensions. This means that you can only use the fence for cuts up to about 6 inches wide!

Looking at the photos on the Screwfix web site, it seems the Titan and Ryobi models, and the Clark at Machine mart, allow the fence to be positioned at any point along the extensions. My dilemma is should I pay more for a saw that allows me to put the fence anywhere or should I save some money and just buy a clamp and a piece of wood/metal to make my own fence?

The Ryobi photo looks as though a router can be fitted to the table. I'm sure it's probably better to have a separate router table, but since I don't have one, I wonder whether that would be useful until I do?

The Clark one I think has the largest table of them all; perhaps I should buy it because of that? It also seems to have a handle at the side for locking the blade angle, whereas all others have it on the front. Is this easier to use or does it make no difference?

In reply to one of my earlier posts, someone kindly pointed out that I needed a 22.5 degree cut if I wanted a section at 45 degrees. Thanks for that, it saved me from embarrassment later. However, do any saws have 22.5 degrees marked? I have looked at a few display models but none seem to have 22.5 marked. I'm surprised as I thought this would be a commonly used angle (after 45 and 90).

Looking near the end of the accurate table saw book, it talks about cutting rebates into wood. I must confess I have not read that chapter thoroughly yet. Do any saws come with height gauges because the ones I have seen so far only have a knob but there is no way to set it to a certain height. Is it just a case of making a test cut on some scrap first?

Earlier in the book it mentions that using a blade with more teeth should give a cleaner cut but the difference is minute. Really? I always thought more teeth = clean cut? Since it is laminated chipboard, I was going to get an 80T blade. Will I be wasting my time?

Finally (sorry for going on so long) I don't think I am getting the straight cuts I was hoping for. I guess that either I am not keeping the wood against the fence or the fence is moving. I think in the earlier thread people talked about clamping the far end of the fence provided it went all the way to the back of the table. None of the fences I have seen go the length of the table and the book says that doing so is dangerous.

More likely it is user error. is it just a matter of practice or are there any special techniques to keep the wood against the fence?

Thanks in advance.

Reply to
Fred
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Cut the plug off the saw, don't put it back on until you've read the book.

There's a reason why the fence doesn't go more than 6" away from the blade.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

You use a router and a saw in a completely different manner, with different stock sizes, that you feed in a different manner. A router table must be small enough for you to handle it safely (i.e. you will and should be reaching over the cutter, albeit with push blocks). A table saw small enough to be worked in this manner would be a feeble wee thing of little use.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

You probably can't do that with a modern UK low-end saw, as the splitter and guard will be above the blade height. How to work around that will depend on your particular saw. Many people don't and simply rebate on the router instead.

The easiest way is to have a "bridge" gauge with two feet that span the blade slot and a variety of calibrated-height steps above. (Veritas sell one, AFAIR) It's not hard to make your own. You can also use some form of height gauge, even just a vertical ruler in a block, to measure it (make sure you measure to the highest tip, rotated to the highest position). Otherwise "sneak up on it", make trial cuts and measure their depth, raising the blade a smidgen each time.

Be aware that the blade height will have a lot of hysteresis in it: it's different cranking up from cranking down. Also you ought to lock the blade height for each cut, as it can wander downwards under vibration. Some cheapies even push the blade arbor up/down/tilted as they clamp.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

I too bought the accurate table saw book.

My aldi table saw didnt last long - just as well as i didnt realise how dangerous a 80mph woodchip flying off the blade could be!

what's the b+Q one like?

on page 38 Ian Kirby recommends getting a clear plastic Lexan plate guard, and says it may cost up to half the price of the table saw, but is worth it.

Is there such a thing for a cheap table saw, or would i have to pay thousands?

[g]
Reply to
george [dicegeorge]

What you need is a saw table. Imagine a thick piece of MDF level with the top of the saw and as wide as you like. You can cut a grove for the existing fence or make a better fence to fit it. To make one requires two sheets of MDF, one for the top, one for the bottom to fit the actual table saw to. Then you need a frame to space the two so the top is level (also MDF) Stand the thing on a couple of trestles. Even a little 10" saw can handle sheets and stuff when mounted on such a bench. PS take the side tables off as the MDF replacement will be better.

Reply to
dennis

george [dicegeorge] wibbled on Sunday 21 February 2010 23:53

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have one of those.

I have used it as a table saw, with a Bosch green circular saw clamped underneath.

It's OK for odd jobs *if* you work within its limitations. Being careful to true up the fence and the saw clamps is essential to reduce the risk of kickback and working in a position that assumes bad things will happen is a good idea (ie not standing directly in front of or over the piece).

Having said that, it's better than resorting to general bodge (and more dangerous) techniques if you cannot afford a proper saw bench. Though personally, circular saws scare me and I try to use them as little as possible.

All power tools are dangerous, even expensive ones - common sense and a mental evaluation of what you are working with is always recommended.

Reply to
Tim Watts

MDF sags under its own weight when horizontal, so this would need a

2x1 (miniumum) perimeter frame. It's worth using MDF though, rather than plywood, as the smooth surface is helpful.
Reply to
Andy Dingley

Useless then.

The norm I think

Yes, pay more. The ability to quickly lock the fence securely in any position at true 90 degs is absolutely essential, but not much else is IMO. It'll drive you crazy if you can't do this. Can you look at the Clarke somewhere? Try the fence, see how straight the front edge of the bed is.

Your willingness to read books and ask questions suggests you should get something half decent that you can customise later on. It'll become your best chum and save you a fortune.

You probably won't tilt the blade very often, so ease of use in that area wouldn't be high on my list of priorities

My chop saw has a 22.5 stop but I don't think it's normal on saw benches. It's basically for mouldings round bays

You just mark your wood and offer it up to the blade. You can see where the top tooth is going to come. Rebates are best left till you've got a bit of experience though. I still don't enjoy doing them on a saw

I think so. You'll get an acceptable cut on most materials with any TCT blade providing it's fed with even pressure at a constant speed.

Can't see why if both ends are the same distance from the blade. Everything about a saw bench is potentially dangerous but, when you get the feel of it, you'll know instinctively what can and can't be done safely. For example, all the finger wagging about kickback doesn't really apply to sheet materials. I sometimes think these books assume you're running old pallets through the saw. It really is the most versatile piece of machinery, but you have to interpret the safety rules rather than follow them to the letter.

No techniques. It's just sustained pressure downwards, forwards and sideways against the fence, all at the same time :-). You may have realised by now that this pressure has to be maintained until the workpiece has cleared the blade, which means your fingers go past the blade as well. The warnings about long hair and trailing jewellry *are* justified. Basically, anything narrower than 100mm might be termed iffy for a beginner.

Reply to
Stuart Noble

A little patronising perhaps?

So, answers on a post card is it?

Reply to
Stuart Noble

He's been told, he's got the book, he ignored everything in both, so from then on it's his fingers.

(or more likely in this case, a flying rectangle of plywood to the ribs)

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Well, I'll say again, a little patronising IMO. Getting the book you suggested is proof of seriousness I'd say

I've worked with sawbenches for 30 years, still have the full complement of digits, and have never been hit by flying plywood. We don't want to put the fear of God into people. Then again, take a look at this lunatic

Reply to
Stuart Noble

It would typically have about 10" (depending on the height of the saw) wide strips of MDF between the top and bottom so sagging isn't going to be a problem..

Reply to
dennis

I want to put the fear of kickback into them. I've never been hit either, but I do have a toolbox with a hole punched in it (ripping thin strips and one did the javelin trick, into a box that was a few feet behind me).

My Wadkin has the extra-long rails for the fence, but I've no intention of ever using them. If I was going to cross-cut things of that size and proportion, I'd be using a sliding table.

Safer than it looks - he's cutting logs that are only 2/3 height of the blade, so the cut angle is still well downwards. His biggest risk is it rolling the log out of the bad and throwing it at him slowly, not from picking it up with the top teeth and really throwing it.

Mind you, that blade needs sharpening.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Providing the edge of the table is parallel with the saw blade you can dispense with the fence altogether. Instead you clamp a batten ( the thicker the better to start with maybe) to the underside of the work and push the batten against the edge of the table. In this way you can stand at the side well away from the blade - and the direction of the cut. The only practice needed is in keeping the sheet flat to the table. You'll need to work out for yourself where exactly to place the batten. This won't for all sizes of sheets but is maybe something else to consider although obviously it won't work for repeat cuts.

michael adams

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Reply to
michael adams

His biggest danger is the amount of force he appears to be using, if the log broke or his feet slipped he would have a saw blade in his head.

Reply to
dennis

Sounds crazy to me. The whole point of a fence is it's exactly 90 degs to the blade, and you can move it and secure it quickly. Moving clamps and battens when you want to adjust it by a mm would be soul destroying.

There is no way you can use a sawbench properly without standing dead centre behind the workpiece. Only then can you exert uniform pressure. To stand anywhere else is asking for inaccuracy and kickback

Reply to
Stuart Noble

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While a fence at right angles to the blade seems crazy to me.

The only fence not parallel to the blade I've ever seen on a table saw is the adjusable fence on the sliding bed on a dimension saw

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Its only soul destorying if you've never needed to cut a piece which is wider than the width of the table on either side of the blade.

In which case doubtless you'd advise going out and buying a saw with a bigger table.

michael adams

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Reply to
michael adams

guard though:-)

It takes a lot of push to get dead Elm through a non tipped blade.

Full complement of fingers, so far.

regards

Reply to
Tim Lamb

I meant the part that locks on to the base, obviously

Or get a saw that takes extension bars.

Reply to
Stuart Noble

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