Strange news item on R4

[alexander.keys1]

In the 11PM 'bulletin' on the 25th November, after a few genuinely important pieces, the last item went something like:

"A baby has been admitted to hospital after being scalded when hot water pipes burst above the cot, at the parent's home in Taunton."

Sounds like the BBC know more than they are telling us. Remember this is a *UK-wide* network, so what is the significance of this story? I wouldn't even consider it sufficiently important for a local BBC radio station, hospital casualty departments must deal with incidents like this regularly.

It didn't say whether the house was local authority/housing association or not, some corruption involving sub-standard plumbing perhaps? We should be told.

It's certainly not the first time bizarre items have appeared on 'BBC Radio News' without explanation.

[Peter Crosland]

It was in a local authority house in Taunton Somerset. Full details given on the BBC News website. Still under investigation by the Police and the local authority. With 85% burns the child has a small chance of survival. A very sad affair.

Peter Crosland

[Peter Crosland]

has full details.

Peter Crosland

[Paul Heslop]

To me the reason it hit national news was the unexpected nature. Yes, children get scalded daily as has been pointed out, but this was a babe in a cot, which is hardly a place where scalding usually occurs. It is indeed a tragedy and probably feels worse for the fact that the family had only just moved into the property.

[Dave Liquorice]

And possibly the fact the child actually survived long enough to get to hospital in Bristol. There is the on going "human interest", though with

85% burns I wouldn't put much money on the childs chances and long term there is going to be awful trouble with scaring.

I also wonder if there is a "hidden agenda" to get the Great Unwashed to tacitly support a "Part P" for Plumbing.

[dom]

There was another similar incident recently (discussed on here) of the cold water tank in a newly rented home bursting over a couples bedroom (and I think killing them), due to it being full of near boiling water from pumping over.

That one was a rented property. This one seriously injuring a baby, a new council house (with from the sound of it an unvented system). So most likely both professional installs with lethal/near-lethal faults.

The argument would be better to require landlords to have a periodic safety inspection/certificte, much like they are required to for gas boilers.

[Guy King]

The message from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:

It mentions it was a "council house" so presumably it should have been taken care of in accordance with the local authority's standards, which should have been adequate.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

But it is a council owned house. If a council didn't use qualified tradesmen there's not much hope for the rest of us.

[Dave Liquorice]

And how many "problems" that brought us Part P were down to "professionals" and how many down to DIYers?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Oh, the vast majority will be down to so called pros. However if 'they' use this sort of thing as an argument for more legislation it makes it easy to countermand or at least get some sort of concession for DIY as happened with gas.

[Tony Bryer]

There's no *hidden* agenda:

"To comply with new Scottish building regulations as of 1st May 2006 any domestic property being built new, or undergoing major alterations which include the bathroom must incorporate control of the temperature of the hot water supply to the bath to a maximum of 48C. Since it also a requirement that the hot water heater be run at 60°C and that the hot water system should circulate at no less than 55°C, it is clear that some form of extra control will be required to ensure that the maximum allowable bath fill temperature is not exceeded. An ideal and simple solution is to fit a thermostatic mixing valve at the point of use."

"In England and Wales the government announced a review of part G of the building regulations would include a consultation on the fitting of TMVs in the domestic environment; this is currently underway but is unlikely to conclude before 2007."

valves, of course, would have done nothing in this particular sad case.

[Doctor Drivel]

Unvented cylinders require servicing as per makers.

[Doctor Drivel]

Unvented cylinders (called magaflows sometimes) require servicing as per makers, whioch is usually one a year (so £60-100 a year to store hot water). They can explode too taking down the side of a house:

actual cause is not known yet, not even the system involved. Sounds like faulty installation to me. Or it could be a plastic pipe bursting. If the two-stage temperature protection on a boiler fails then the temperature in a sealed heating system can be well over 100C (pressurised water has lower boiling point). Many plastic pipe makes are not capable of temperatures over

100C. A kinked plastic pipe on installation can weaken the integrity of the pipe and if in an overheat situation a pipe burst can happen and often do.

Many Central Heating systems fitted with plastic pipes are only saved by the boiler protection. If this fails many will have burst pipes with boiling water/steam coming out. The pressure relief valve is set to 3.5 bar, a weakend kinked plastic pipe can fail at well below 3.5 bar.

Many systems are fitted with plastic pipe that will only hold a pressure of

3 bar at 100C. Potential for catastrophe.

[dom]

Yes, unvented requires servicing - however I don't believe the householder (or landlord) is legally compelled to do so.

Indeed, it could be unintentionally unvented, "vented system".

Increased pressure raises the boiling point.

[Doctor Drivel]

Yep, I got that the wrong way around. It could be over 100C and not boil. It could be over 100C, not boil and under 3.5 bar and a plastic pipe pops and the relief valve set to 3.5 bar does not open.

The new houses I have seen, most, not all, have copper pipe in the loft. But the use of plastic everywhere is now more common.

I can't off-hand think of a boiler that does not have two stage temperature protection these days.

[GMK]

Boyles law? G

[Doctor Drivel]

No. Denis Law.

[Steve Brooks]

No. Coles law.

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:21:39 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel" wrote this:-

I doubt if anyone who knew what they were talking about would ever get that the wrong way round. It is such an obvious mistake.

[Doctor Drivel]

You are a plantpot.