Stained glass/leaded window repair

Hi, can anyone point me at info about repairing a leaded window?
Son managed to bend the pane outwards so much that two pieces of glass have cracked badly. One of them has a huge hole in it.
I've found some links that suggest you could repair in-situ but they don't offer much detail.
TIA Cheers PJ
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Ok, Ive not done this but apparently it works.
You have to cut teh leading with a dremel or stanley knife in the corers enough to lever up a bit to get the old galss out: replacement glass can be obtained (typically 3mm horticultural) and inserted, and then you carefully bend the lead back: a blob of electrical solder (soldering iron or gun: not blowlamp, though if you are careful an oxy torch works I believe) on the cut parts restores all.
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HI Folks
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well - sort of right....
Certainly a stanley knife to cut through the lead (it's called 'came') in the corners - if it's an old window then you may find that the lead has become brittle, so be careful. If you have a glass cutter (the sort with a carbide wheel) then make a series of radial scores across the broken pieces, and then tap gently on the other side of the glass with a pair of pliers, screwcdriver handle or similar. You can then (hopefully) break the broken piece still further, and wiggle the broken segments out one by one (use pliers or gloves!)
If the original glass was coloured then you can get replacements from your friendly local stained glass dealer - they might even cut it to size for you - or if you want to email me direct then I'm sure I could find a piece of the right size and colour for you.
The glass is held in the groove of the came, and secured with a putty mixture (you might get away with silicon sealant as a diy solution).
Electrical solder won't work - you'll need some sort of bar solder (the proper stuff is called blowpipe solder) and a large soldering iron. Ideally use a tallow candle rubbed on the joint as flux, failing that try some Bakers Fluid.
DON'T use a oxy-torch - if you don;t shatter the adjacent pieces of glass then you'll burn the lead away - remember that it has a melting point not much higher than the solder you'll be using. If it's possible to take the window out and work with it flat then you'll find it much easier...
Your local stained glass shop may well be able to fix it for you - to be honest it's not the easiest DIY task...
Hope this helps - email me (adrian at inspired-glass.com) if you want more info.
Adrian
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I've just used some ordinary lead electronic multicore (60/40) to repair a split in lead sheet. Worked just fine using a small blowlamp and some care. Experimented with lead free too - doesn't work, and neither did plumbing solder as the lead melted first. I practised on some scraps first. Not the purist's way I'm sure but I wasn't going to buy a soldering iron for just this task.
--
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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wrote:

I used a soldering iron. Much safer. In my case it was an internal leaded panel in a cabinet door so I could get it laid flat. External ones need the lead sealing with putty or similar else you get water penetrating.
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Having done many of these (one of many perils of being the church handyman), two warnings: (1) the lead doesn't bend out as far as the depth of the channel, so don't measure for the glass until you've opened it up, and (2) I've never been able to get it to bend back neatly and always end up with a "pie-crust" effect, so open it on the side you won't see too often. To get around (1), I now use perspex instead of glass and file it to fit, but I hesitate to think how many regs this breaks! I've never bothered to resolder the corner cuts. Silicone is easier to work with than putty.
Chris
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On 13 Sep, 11:53, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Tempsford
They sell everything, inc. books, videos and courses. If you're near Bristol, try Creative Glass Guild too (Bedminster)
Generally damage is repairable, but for age wear the whole lot tends to start failing and it's often quicker to replace all the lead and rebuild the whole pane. Leaded glass is very quick to work (far quicker than copper foil or zinc came), but you do need the right approach and some obscure tools. Fine stuff for DIY, but read up beforehand.
Glass cutting is its own joy.
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HI Andy
Andy Dingley wrote:

Or Bournemouth Stained Glass, or Trinity in Norwich - or tell us where you are ...?
The offer of a couple of pieces of glass, cut to size, still stands...

Must get round to doing some serious lead-work one of these days - must be nice to have that much 'margin for error' in the glass-cutting...

Ain't that the truth ! <g>
Adrian
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wrote:

Sorry forgot to say - I'm in Stockport. Thanks for the offer of the glass but the bits that are broken are clear and 'dimpled'. I reckon I can get a piece from the local glass shop.
I'll have a go with a Dremel and see how I go. It's a 1930's house so I imagine the lead may be tricky to bend.
Thanks for all the info. provided so far. It looks like it might make an interesting hobby!
ALDI are about to do a soldering iron kit for 6 that includes an 80W iron. I read somewhere that you need 120W so I guess 80W would be too weak. Any thoughts?
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You need a really, really, big soldering iron. The local lead specialist uses one that looks like a small copper axe with (I think) a 500W element. I've seen suggestions that the smallest iron to consider for lead canes is 300W.
<http://www.tracysworkshop.com/p-15712-hexacon-300w-straight-soldering-i ron.aspx?currencysetting=gbp&affiliateid051>
http://tinyurl.com/6nlk3o
About 100 or so.
Oh, here you go, one of the right type at a sensible price (25). I'd get one quick before they go back up to 100.
<http://www1.westfalia.net/shops/tools/welding_and_soldering_equipment/s oldering__hard_soldering/soldering_irons/239971-1_soldering_iron_300w.ht m>
http://tinyurl.com/56nydh
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HI Steve
Steve Firth wrote:

I'd say that the OP doesn;t need anything like that amount of power - and is likely to do more harm than good with an over-powerful iron.
Some folks use a 200W iron with a 'dimmer'-type controller - but you really should be able to manage with a 100W iron.
With a non-temp-controlled one you'll have to wait for it to heat up in-between joints - but that's no big deal.
Apparently solder 'guns' won;t do the job because thay can't be operated for long enough to get the heat into the work.
There's a fair chance that the lead is perished anyway - in which case a simple job becomes a complicated one fairly quickly.
If he were to get a local expert round to give an estimate then he might find that a re-build of the window was recommended. If the OP still wants to go ahead with this then there's a fair investment in tools & materials - and it'd be worth buying a piece of plain glass to fill the 'hole' while he dismantles / rebiulds the window at his leisure.
A photo of the window & the damage would be interesting...
Adrian
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My experience is the other way around. Too small an iron does more damage than a large one. A large iron can solder the spot without transferring a lot of heat into the surrounding cane. A small iron is held in place for much longer and more heat transfers where you don't want it.
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On 14 Sep, 16:39, % snipped-for-privacy@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:

I would suggest Steve, that you have sod-all experience of soldering lead and lots of experience of soldering lead-tin eutectic alloys. It's a whole different ballgame.
You need an iron of about 75-80W, which are just about affordable. For commercial use you would like something of 150W or so. Any bigger is great, but you'll want a power controller and probably a second (lighter) iron for smaller work. I don't know of any adequately reliable temperature controlled irons at over 150W (where "reliable" factors in the vast and unwarranted cost of the damned things).
Lead work can use a _lower_ powered iron than copper foil on windw- sized panels, because you're only soldering joins, not reflowing solder along a whole edge. If you're not working against the clock (i.e. most hobby stuff) then you can allow a lower powered iron to recover temperature between lead joints. If you're trying to reflow a smooth bead along 3' of foil, there's no substitute for watts.
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Well you're free to suggest whatever you like, if you try hard some of them might even be correct.
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HI
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

A quick Google on
stained glass stockport
shows a variety of companies - who might either do the job for you (worth asking for a quote, maybe ?) - or poijnt you in the right direction for supplies

They'll likely have something similar. Watch out for the thickness of the original glass. We tend to use 3mm for most stained-glass work nowadays - not sure what would have been used in your original door.
Lots of modern window glass seems to start at 4mm - and you'll find the job challenging enough without trying to force some over-thickness glass into the came. Make sure to scrape out the old putty once you've got the glass out.
Maybe make up a paper template for the pieces that you need (thin paper placed over the broken glass in-site - mark around the edge of the lead and then add whatever you need for the bit that fits into the recess in the came. Make it looser rather than tighter... - sweet-talk your supplier into cutting it for you....

You may find that it's too easy to bend ! <g> As somebody else said - lead eventually goes very soft (corrosion through acidic stuff in the rain, maybe?) and you may find that it'll 'tear' rather than bending...

Well - you don't want _too much_ heat - generally folks use a 100w-or-so temperature controlled iron (Weller's my favourite) - but they're not cheap.
You're not trying to melt the whole came - just enough to make it strong again - too much heat and you'll lose the whole corner as one soggy blob of lead....
Flux the joint, little bit of solder on the iron, melt until you see that there's a bond formed.... then STOP! <g>
If you can get the window out & work horizontally then it'll be easier.
Lots of resources out there on the web... let us know if you get stuck
Good luck Adrian
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wrote:

They also will give very good advice by e-mail. It's an excellent company.

I agree with all of that.
Mary
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Andy Dingley wrote:

Glaziers are in league with the Devil IMO. They have powers beyond our understanding...
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
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HI Dave
The Medway Handyman wrote:

I could explain how it works - but then, according to the Guild rules, I'd have to make sure you didn't reveal the secrets to anybody else ! <g>
Must be coming up the Christmas time - he said - having nearly finished another 'batch' of 24 little stained-glass angels!
What fun !
Adrian
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