Spur to outdoor fountain

[Martin Pentreath]

From my nice new kitchen I want to run a spur to a 240v fountain in the garden.

First of all, can I do this? I really don't want to run the cable back to the CU, which would be very hard due to the topography of the house. I'm hoping I can use an RCD-protected FCU to spur-off from one of the kitchen rings (there are two) and run it through the kitchen wall from that.

If this is within the regs I presume I should be using SWA cable to get to the fountain. In which case what would be the appropriate junction box for joining the SWA to the spur within the house? Is there any FAQ that covers working with SWA?

In fact is SWA cable necessary? The cable will be clipped to the side of the building, it will go through a conduit which is already burried under the patio, and it will emerge by another wall which it will also be clipped to until it reaches the fountain.

Many thanks,

Martin

[David Hansen]

On 10 Jan 2006 11:07:25 -0800 someone who may be "Martin Pentreath" wrote this:-

In what way? Can you do this legally, it depends where you are. Can you do this physically, I doubt if anyone here knows.

There have been a number of discussions on sheds and garages recently. Much the same applies to what you want to do. Look at these threads and you will find links to publications by the IEE that have some little diagrams showing sheds fed from "inside" ring circuits.

Covered in the earlier discussions.

No, any suitable wiring system can be used. Pyro looks good in many situations, but I wouldn't advise anyone without the right tools to try it. Suitable types of wiring system are indicated in the various guides one may borrow from a library or purchase.

You need to consider the effects of things like sunlight and frost on the proposed wiring system. Some types of cable can be clipped directly outside, others need protection.

Is it a brick wall, a fence, a stone wall, old railway sleepers?

[Dave Stanton]

I think you will find that Gardens are know classed as special locations under Part P of the Building Regs.

Dave

[Owain]

Even if they weren't, taking the spur from the kitchen would be covered :-(

Owain

[Owain]

Part Pee will apply.

Yes.

Is the kitchen ring already protected by an RCD at the CU? If it is, adding an RCD at the FCU won't achieve discrimination and will be pointless.

A waterproof box could be mounted on the house wall, with PVC T&E passing straight through the wall into the box, and the SWA running from another side of the box.

I don't think there is a FAQ on SWA cable, but your local library/FE College will probably have an electrical wiring textbook with pictures of how to do the terminations.

Sounds like Hi-Tuff would be suitable if it's either buried in conduit or visible and clipped. I would suggest cabling into a waterproof socket and plugging the fountain into that, especially if the fountain has its own lead with plug. That will enable the fountain to be locally isolated if needed.

Owain

[Mike Harrison]

Would it..? If the wire goes through the wall from the back of the socket you could argue that it isn't actually 'in' the kitchen at all....

[Owain]

that it isn't actually

But you would be taking the front off the socket, and that's in the kitchen, and prohibited by part Pee.

Now if you drilled through the wall from the outside and attached the cables by keyhole surgery techniques to the socket terminals whilst leaving the socket front in place and remaining below the interior surface level at all times, you might have a point.

Owain

[Chip]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 23:46:28 +0000,it is alleged that Owain spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

that it isn't actually

Simply declare the room to not be a kitchen for the duration of the work :-)

[EricP]

What an interesting thought!

Comments anyone??

[Owain]

To remove fixed cooking appliances would be subject to Part Pee (if electric cooker) or CORGI or self-competence (if gas cooker)

The simplest way is probably to turn off the main water stop-c*ck and declare the building uninhabitable as it does not have a potable water supply. It then (I think) ceases to be a dwelling.

You could also claim a day's rebate on council tax as the property is uninhabitable during building works.

Owain

[Chip]

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:33:09 +0000,it is alleged that Owain spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

I like this concept, however, you'd probably have to prove residence somewhere else during that time, and the hassle may not be worth it.

As for being covered by part pee during the disconnection of the cooking appliances, maybe 'it was just a cooking appliance storage room your honour' ?

[Andy Wade]

You'd have to remove the sink and/or worktops:

From the EGBR:

"Kitchen is defined as a room or part of a room which contains a sink and food preparation facilities.

"In open plan areas the zone of a kitchen may be considered to extend from the edge of the sink to a distance of 3 m or to a nearer dividing wall."

[Ed Sirett]

that it isn't actually

But the outside is also a special location, isn't it.