Spares Availabilty

[Dave Liquorice]

How long would you expect a company to hold spares for an electrical appliance? ISTR that there is a statutary requirement?

We have a Dimplex oil filled radiator and the electronic timer module has failed, relay not switching on/off but the electronic timer/display still works. This radiator is about 6 years old but can I find a replacement timer CIF. Dimplex don't even mention the heater in their eStore, UK-Spares are mentioned as a possible source for stuff not in the Dimplex eStore but when I asked them they said "DIMPLEX don't do any spares for your heater".

6 years seem to me to be well within the "expected life" of an oild filled radiator so surely spares should still be available?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not possible to do a repair at component level?

[Mark]

I sympaphise with your predicament but I don't believe there is any statutory requirement. I had to scrap a fridge/freezer after 6 years because I couldn't get spares. Manufacturers don't want you to repair their products - they want you to buy new.

A decent company should hold spares for a good long time but there are few of those now the bean counters run everything.

[Dave Liquorice]

Haven't investigated that yet but it might come to that. But with something that I'd expect to have at least a 15 year life to be scrapheap material because of no spares after six is a bit off.

The board with the relay on is at mains potential. I want some means of firmly holding the board while I poke about on it with probes rather than having it skating about the desk. B-)

Not even sure what the coil voltage of the relay is it's not mains for sure from trace following and I have looked at the markings.

[Harry Bloomfield]

Dave Liquorice presented the following explanation :

I would doubt any manufacturer keeps any spares for such low cost items anymore. Most these days import and rebadge. Should one fail within guarantee, they simply scrap the old and replace with new, so your only fix is to source the parts yourself from other than the manufacturer.

Larger, higher cost items like washing machines can still have original replacement parts sourced because they are not yet imported in from the far east, but thats only a matter of time.

[polygonum]

Maybe manufacturers, and retailers, should be compelled to list a "spares will be available for nn years" commitment on their products? Add to the existing energy efficiency notices where feasible. With some degree of enforcement.

OK - so that probably would not help customers of Comet. :-(

[Andrew Mawson]

That's progress for you. They originally had a simple bi-metallic strip with a knob bearing on it - ours is still going strong after 25 years. Personally I avoid electronics in these sort of thing if I can, despite spending a working lifetime working with electronics.

AWEM

[Dave Plowman (News)]

That's fine if you don't mind the initial cost being considerably more. Running a 'just in case' spares service is very expensive. Which is why many cheaper power tools have no spares availability at all - just money back if it fails within a certain period.

[Nightjar]

Under UK law, if goods fail due to an inherent fault within six years of purchase, you are entitled to a repair or a partial refund, the amount of which would take into account the use you have had from the item. Therefore, it is unlikely that many manufacturers will keep spares for more than six years after they stop making a product. As, after the first six months, the onus is on the consumer to show that it failed due to an inherent fault, rather than fair wear and tear, a lot will probably work on the principle that it is cheaper not to keep any spares for products no longer sold and to do the partial refund if they really have to.

Colin Bignell

[polygonum]

Why would it change any costs? Miele say "spares will be available for at least 10 years", Arfur's fell-of-the-back-of-the-lorry specials say "spares will be available for as long as it takes you to read this statement". The only enforcement is that a claim should be mandatory and would form a part of the contract and if spares are not available as claimed, then there is a breach to be resolved. With, perhaps, a default position of five years for minor goods, ten years for more significant goods - if nothing else is displayed.

You go to B&Q, see a Macallister and a Makita. One says "no spares"; the other says "three years spares". You make your choice on that basis rather than some guess as now.

[Mathew Newton]

No, the six years is the statute of limitation i.e. how long after an event you are entitled to bring legal proceedings. This does not mean that all goods must necessarilly last six years.

Mathew

[Nightjar]

you are entitled to bring legal proceedings. This does not mean that all goods must necessarilly last six years.

Hence my point about the amount of the refund being diminished according to the amount of use obtained from the item.

Colin Bignell

[Mark]

Manufacturers are not going to care one hoot about this since the rights about which you speak are only between the consumer and the retailer. The manufacturer may choose to offer a warranty and any failures outside this are SEP[1]

[1] Somebody Else's Problem.

[Mathew Newton]

No, you are missing the point.

The six years is the time limit within which you are entitled to make a *claim* against the retailer. It is not an automatic entitlement to repair or refund, regardless of whether that refund diminishes or not.

Mathew

[Fredxx]

An alternative is that when a manufacturer/importer no longer supports the item, perhaps they should be obliged to publish drawings and circuits, firmware and software to enable others to maintain the product?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You think a spares service can be set up for nothing? And stocks kept which may never be needed?

Quite. As I said at high initial cost.

Lidl offer a money back warranty for three years - but no pretty well no spares. Of course their quality is such that they expect most of the tools they sell will outlast that period comfortably. If you wish to pay perhaps three times the price for a tool that has spares, it's your choice.

[Andrew May]

But he is not suggesting that spares _must_ be kept. The suggestion is that if a company like Miele keeps spares for ten years they must state that on the box. If they choose not to keep spares or only keep them for two years then they must state that as well.

There is no onus on a company to keep spares for any particular length of time, just to state the minimum period that they will keep them for.

[polygonum]

I am not in any way saying that they SHOULD set up a spares service. The ONLY change I want is for the suppliers (manufacturers, importers, distributors, retailers) to declare what the situation is up front - with something to encourage compliance.

I am more than happy with the Lidl approach - and they could say "no spares available but whole product has 3 year warranty". Fine.

[polygonum]

I do think that something like would have some benefits.

I particularly hate seeing things like laptops for which there is no manufacturer-authorised replacement battery - often within a very short time of it being a current product. So we all have to take a chance with some third-party product.

Perhaps such a requirement would push manufacturers to sell such details to companies and thereby allow authorised third-party spares. Their choice - make the spares available yourselves or allow someone else to do so and possibly get a few quid as well. (The sooner they allow, the more they could make.) Or wait a while and be forced to do so anyway but get nothing from it.

[Brian Gaff]

a lot of companies have to work out how many spares to keep as they often will no longer hav any way to make them again. Sometimes its a goodly lot sometimes not it appears.

Brian