Given all the additional precautions other posters have recommended this does seem a high risk undertaking.
If you are averse to pushfit, have you considered compression joints?
The slightly higher cost will probably be offset by the lack of risk and general issues over using a naked flame in a flammable substrate under a wooden floor with a limited escape route.
Of course, real plumbers only use solder :-)
However, normal human beings can sometimes take alternative approaches.
HTH Dave R
In article , David W.E. Roberts writes
I think that is very good advice. If I were making some joints in a rather inaccessible location where I couldn't be certain that I have cleaned the pipe all the way round, or was unable to inspect the joint either, I think I'd opt for compression fittings which I have done before on some occasions.
Its not a case of being a real plumber at all, just horses for courses, otherwise why do you think they still make 'em?.....
Hmm. I'd like to be sure the pipe was clean and undamaged with compression fittings too. And a scratch which might cause a problem with a compression fitting won't with a solder type. Then there's the problem of tightening a compression fitting in an inaccessible place.
They allow dismantling.
I don't think I could make ANY joint on a piece of pipe I couldn't wrap a strip of emery around and burnish, or get a pipe cutter around to cut, or a small mirror behind to inspect afterwards...and CERTAINLY if I couldn't get those around I'd be hard pressed to actually screw a compression fitting on.
I've had FAR more trouble with compression fittings leaking than soldered ones as well.
AFAIAC the only good thing about a compression fitting is you can take it apart without cutting a pipe. Having learnt to solder, I simply won't ever use them unless I have to - generally when its not possible to do otherwise - e.g. its very hard to solder a tap onto thr end of a pipe....;-)
I haven't used pushfit, but I have used teh odd flexible pipe. I think they are extremely useful when retrofitting stuff to awkward places, and the joints can be pretty reliable, I still prefer copper and solder though. That IS prejudice - no reason to believe it's really any better.
In message , tony sayer writes
Another reason for compression fittings in such a location in a retro fit job is water dribbles. Even when you've drained the system, there's often enough water dribbling around in the underfloor areas to make soldering impossible. I would do new bits in soldered, then put in a compression T to link into the existing.
At the very least I always have a few compression fittings to hand just in case of problems.
A long time ago (about 15 years) I had an old fashioned bin (with a lid) in the garden that we used to collect grass cuttings. One late spring/early summer, I took the lid of and to my amazement found the top of the bin coated with countless webs spun by the one and only spider in residence. It must have lived in hope for the best part of 9 months. I'm sure I saw it blink a lot when I took the lid off the bin :-)
Nice to know the name of those big buggers that come into my house in Autumn. Cardinal spiders are they!
They are most welcome. I hate flies, but love spiders :-)
Dave
get in there dont be a pus tack a burn mat in you need too
-- bullet941
As somebody else pointed out it'll be a PITA trying to get the pipework dry enough to solder. However I'm thinking about where you plan to tap into the existing pipework: is this really the best place to conenct your new rad in to? I'd be inclined to connect back to nearer the main 'trunk' pipework rather than a branch if possible, to ease balancing. Maybe you have such pipework more easily accessible under the floor? In which case I'd run the connections to the new rad in plastic (e.g. Hep2O or Speedfit) and tap into the existing pipework with pushfit or compression. Doesn't matter if the run to the new rad involves a few metres of pipework, and it'll be a lot easier just dragging plastic pipework under the floor and poking it up through a couple of holes in the floor than firkling about trying to solder lying flat on your back in a spider-infested rubble-strewn grave :-)
personally, I'd spike up through the floor with copper and take plastic back to the main feed/return using pushfit. it's not as if it's totally inaccessable, just difficult to get to and hard for a newbie to solder.
RT
your new rad in to? I'd be inclined to connect back to nearer the main 'trunk' pipework rather than a branch
Yes, it is the main trunk, not a branch.
And I'm getting pretty good at the old solder joints now, but the comments about water in the pipe is well worth noting - I hadn't thought of that. So I'll do the link to the exiting pipework with brass compression joints.
Thanks again all
-K
If it's just a dribble - what's left in the pipe - you can usually spring it down enough to get it out. Then possibly spring it up above horizontal while soldering. Of course if it's running water, forget it.
In article , David W.E. Roberts writes
Open any plumbers van these days and you will find them full of plastic, the norm is to use plastic where they can, copper where its visible or necessary (rad tails etc)
I've 2 plumbers in the family and they rarely use copper and only in the circumstances you and I mention. far too much faffing about, especially when time is money, especially OPM (other peoples money)
RT
This wate in te pipe is a load of old malarkey.
If the pipes are horizontal the water will fall out anyway. If vertical going down, open a valve somewhere and blow the water out.
Only time its given me serous trouble was trying to fix a leaking joint in a system full of water.
Well, yes, but then they don't have to live in the house - or worry about things lasting more than a year or so.
Seems like a good reason to DIY, where time isn't money. The heating system I installed 3 years ago is all copper, with end-feed soldered joints. (It was last drained and filled 2 years ago, and has not needed topping up since.)
Yup. Surely the main reason to DIY is to get the best possible end result
*and* save money?Copper tube with solder fittings is cheaper than push fit plastic - and
*proved* to last a lifetime and more.In article , Andrew Gabriel writes
I did mine all in plastic except for the boiler connections, airing cupboard and rad tails, its getting on for 4 years old now, the only time I have re-pressurised is when I have added or removed a rad.
In article , Dave Plowman (News) writes
This is not so though Dave, the only plumbing failures I have had in my current house are pin holes in the copper pipe. I think the influx of cheap imported copper in the last few years is a bit of a time bomb, you must have compared wall thicknesses? some of this imported pipe must be difficult to bend without getting a kink, its so thin.
In article , Dave Plowman (News) writes
Come on Dave, these aren't just fly by night plumbers who rip-em-off and run-off, these are reputable companies that *will* put things right if they go wrong, the two houses going up behind me are being built to a very high standard with lots of extra touches going in that the purchasers won't even know about, the company doing the plumbing are a firm that get all their work through recommendation, they use plastic extensively. We've just had a new boiler installed and some extra pipework put in at our local village hall, we asked a lot of questions before settling on a company to do it to make sure we had quality of workmanship and guarantees in place that meant something, the only place they used copper was where the pipe was visible, the owner of the company (who I got to know well) told me that plastic has become the norm for him, this is another company that gets work through recommendation. I don't believe that these companies are risking their reputations by using materials that will fail after a year, they have been around for many years and expect to be around for a lot more.
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