Solar Panels - change of views on this NG?

[OG]

Why pay off peak prices for 3.1p/kwh return?

[Tabby]

Indeed. But too short to reach any kind of maturity with the tougher problems, which include PV, cars, tvs, etc.

not really. If a political party pays me =A31000 to invest in a 1% savings account, its still a lacklustre 1% account.

Those that install solar pv arent average punters, they're a very non- average set.

So I now know. But this is solely due to a political agenda payment. And how long that will last who knows. Its a real shame that genuinely innovative useful systems are specifically excluded, making the whole exercise rather pointless.

NT

[The Natural Philosopher]

its 45p a unit payment

[Chris J Dixon]

No, you haven't understood correctly.

There is a separate meter which measures what is generated. You are paid the FIT, now 43.3p per kWh, based on this meter.

Unless you already have a smart meter, you are deemed to have exported half of this, the export tariff is now 3.1p per kWh.

You also save by reducing your power usage whilst you are generating. There is scope for trying to match usage to generation, so you actually use 100%, though the return is small by comparison with FIT, so exotic schemes like modulating immersion heater load are somewhat uneconomic.

Chris

[Dave Liquorice]

As I understand it *all* power generated by the panels attracts the

43p/unit generation tariff(*). You can use all this power yourself thus not using any grid power (add 10p/unit).

Only an installation without proper "smart" metering would have their export guesstimated at 50% of generation. The export tariff is an

*additional* payment so the effective total price paid for exported power is nearer 56p/unit (43 + 10 + 3).

(*) Fixed for the 25 year period at the rate current when you join the scheme. Only the entry rate is RPI linked.

[Bill Taylor]

If you're not using it you'ld be paid 46p per unit (43+3).

No, the rate is inflation linked for the duration of the contract.

[Dave Liquorice]

exported

Yeah, brain fart.

"1. Generation tariff - a set rate paid by the energy supplier for each unit (or kWh) of electricity you generate. This rate will change each year for new entrants to the scheme (except for the first 2 years), but once you join you will continue on the same tariff for 20 years, or 25 years in the case of solar electricity (PV)."

I read that to mean that for the first two years of the scheme the tariff is RPI linked ie up to installations registered before end March 2012 but once you join you are on that tariff for the duration. The rate for new registrations in a given period *does* change with the RPI, or not when you read:

year 3 (1/4/12 to 31/3/13) the rates for

[Bill Taylor]

From your last link

"Both generation and export tariff rates are index-linked which means that they will increase or decrease with inflation. The tariff rates are adjusted annually by the percentage increase or decrease in the Retail Price Index over the 12 month period ending on 31 December of the previous year. "

which does say that the tariffs in payment increase with inflation. How long it will be before they change it is anyones guess.

[Dave Liquorice]

Yes it does say that the tarifs increase with RPI, except for the period 1/4/12 to 31/3/13 when a number of them drop and most stay the same... How can they set those now well before the RPI is known?

And watch the weasel words, it *does not* say the tarrif of a registered system will change in line with the new entrant tarrif. Other parts a very clear that "... once you join you will continue on the same tariff for 20years, or 25 years in the case of solar electricity (PV)."

[Chris J Dixon]

They were increased to the present level on April 1st 2011.

What you don't seem to have appreciated is that there are two different things going on.

Firstly, the initial FIT for _new_ applicants will decrease in stages as time passes. A table has been published, but is likely to be reviewed sooner rather than later. (This was rationalised as being because increased take-up should bring costs down.) You only refer to this table at the time you join up. After that it has no relevance to your FIT.

Once you have got your installation registered, the initial FIT is set, and the annual inflation adjustment is calculated based upon that value.

Simples ;-)

Chris

[Dave Liquorice]

Please cite an official source that states that in plain, unambigous, english. I've not found anything that does.

I've found references to the tariff *for new registrants* varying either at the whim of the government and/or in line with RPI and statements that the rate you join at is the rate you have for the next 20 or 25 years.

I've seen nothing that, unambigously, states that the rate you start with is linked to the RPI on a year on year basis. Maybe I'm being to cynical but without it in black and white...

[RobertL]

i am confuised abotu teh technical side of this. To sell elec to teh grid i clearly need some kind of box t oconnect it with. but yo ualso seem to be able t oclaim for the elec generated even if yo uuse it all yourself.

So, suppose I put some PV panels on the house and use all the electricity myself, not connecting it to the grid at all. Am I still allowed to claim the 43p/unit based on the nominal output of the Pv array?

Surely it can't mean that can it?

Robert

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think it does.

But I am not sure.

[RobertL]

Sorry, now with proper spelling:

I am confused about the technical side of this. To sell electricity to the grid I clearly need some kind of box to connect it with. But you also seem to be able to claim for the electricity generated even if you use it all yourself.

So, suppose I put some PV panels on the house and use all the electricity myself, not connecting it to the grid at all. Am I still allowed to claim the 43p/unit based on the nominal output of the Pv array?

Surely it can't mean that can it?

Robert

[Chris J Dixon]

"Both generation and export tariff rates are index-linked which means that they will increase or decrease with inflation. The tariff rates are adjusted annually by the percentage increase or decrease in the Retail Price Index over the 12 month period ending on 31 December of the previous year."

Will that do?

Chris

[Dave Liquorice]

Well you can't simply DIY you have to use an installer registered with the MCS

or have the installation certfied by Ofgem. It has to meet certain critera, one of which may well be a grid connection.

But essentaily, yes, fit a load of PV panels and get paid 43p/unit for each unit they generate, even if you use all that power yourself. Any power you feed to the grid attracts an extra 3p/unit.

[Vortex10]

I've been experimenting with a variable immersion heater load....and then last few days weather has allowed my first proper test. (I was inspired by this thread

on the Navitron forums)

It is very effective at making free hot water, but honestly the tank is "full" after about 10kWh. There would be no point trying to use 100% of the (otherwise exported) leccy....because we could never use that much hot water! Does mean the gas boiler can stay off completely on sunny days.

[OG]

Can you provide evidence for this? My information is that the FIT is based on calculated capacity.

[OG]

No it isn't.

My information is that they don't measure the electricity generated for the 43.3p Feed In Tariff. That is a calculated figure based on location, alignment and area. Once your installation is in place you won't get more than the calculated figure.

Shining lights on panels would only contribute to the what you can earn from the Export Tariff - which is 3.1p

[The Natural Philosopher]

so you can take it down and install it somewhere else for another 43p per imaginary unit?