Solar

I'm sure you don't. Elementary understanding of physics and maths has always been rather beyond your meager abilities.

I did, and it was monitored for much of its life. It saved an average of GBP 18 per year. If the money had been put in a savings account it would have earned far more than that.

Because a passive system really needs to be designed into the building when it's built (or extended).

Because a flat panel system works well in wam weather but very badly in cold sunny weather. It may still capture plenty of solar heat, but it also has losses too high for effective use in our climate, year-round.

But a hell of lot locally. Imagine London full of solar panels on every roof. The air quality would rise substantially. If the roofs were full of PV panels then even more.

If regs are introduced to implement solar then prices will come down and everyone benefits and many ways.

You are burying your head in the sand.

Nonsense. Over the whole years solar may produce substantial heat, and who in their right mind used an electric immersion when cheaper oil or gas is available.

That is right. Do you occasionally have a day off?

Panels from gutter to apex look good.

If it is DIYed using Navitron panels, then it IS viable.

Yes he knows sums. Probably into take-ways by now.

Scotland has a long heating season, right into June. Because purchased heat is required for 9 to 10 months of the year, the more you can claw from solar the better. Surprisingly, solar, passive and active, in Scotland makes more sense than anywhere else in the UK. Probably the same for NI too.

Why? We'd burn less gas, but gas burns to CO2 and water. I'm not disputing that reducing CO2 is probably a good thing but it doesn't affect air quality.

How so?

You mean in the same way that if you approach a firm offering the government grants for solar water heating you have to pay GBP2,000 over the odds for the installation to qualify for a GBP400 grant? Or the way Part P has "lowered" the price charged by electricians for domestic work?

It may, however it doesn't, there are many summer days where the output is negligible.

They do?

So when are you installing yours to go with the hot air heating you worship (but don't have)?

OK, I'll give you clue as it is unlikely you would ever work it out and yet again you demonstrate your inability to read. The rest of the heating system was very efficient. As it was efficient the cost of heating water was low and the saving from the solar water heating was therefore also low. The amount of energy available for the solar panels to collect is unalterable. If they had been 100% effective they would still have been a poor investment.

My God, Mr Pot can't figure that out.

"over the whole year". Has it sunk in yet?

They do.

May be sooner than you think.

I wish I had it.

It makes more sense - but it's also more demanding on how you do it.

Just follow the golden rules and it will all work.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:23:28 +0000 someone who may be Peter Parry wrote this:-

As the old Chinese proverb says, the longest journey starts with a single step. Saying that it is all too difficult and there is nothing I can do is common, but not useful.

If the solar system is sized properly then the number of times a boiler is run will be negligible.

Who said anything about doing this?

Excellent, personal abuse. Usually the resort of those with no better arguments.

Given that Mr Prescott wants to build huge numbers of houses in England over a relatively short period of time, over and above what the volume builders are providing, we are talking about changing the economics over a period of, say, five years.

Early adopters retrofitting houses will undoubtedly bring the price down, as we see in other fields.

This man knows no better.

That is the man.

And:

Yep.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 12:13:59 +0000 someone who may be Peter Parry wrote this:-

So you assert. Others can decide how valid your assertions are on this subject. Perhaps you are claiming that the comments at

"My family has been the beneficiaries of Solartwin hot water for the past three years and we cannot speak highly enough about the company and its equipment. Even in the middle of the winter the pump gets triggered and our tank fills with warm water. Living in an isolated spot with bottled gas as our energy source the cost of heating the water was astronomical and a year round expense. Now however we turn off the gas for three to four months in the summer and enjoy enough hot water for all our washing needs. We have never needed any service or help since installation and recommend Solartwin both for its technology and helpful and friendly service"

?23 December 2004 - My Solartwin was happily whirling away in the bright winter sunshine yesterday morning at around 11 o?clock.?

Old Chinese proverb also says starting the journey in the wrong direction and wearing a blindfold makes sure you don't get very far.

Who said that? I said it was the wrong answer and contributed nothing to solving the problem. The problem may be solved but not by political and making token ineffective gestures.

You did "Not running a boiler all the year round is not an advantage? Fascinating." You obviously meant it differently.

I noticed that in your first rather weak attempt.

Some people think Tracy Eminem produces art, there is no accounting for taste.

As a matter of interest an oft touted figure (by the manufacturers of course) is that putting solar panels on a house increases its selling price by GBP1,000 over neighbouring houses - has anyone any evidence this has ever happened? I'm aware of one person locally who had some trouble selling a house with commercially fitted solar heating because it looked so awful and buyers wanted to reduce the price by the amount needed to take it out and rebuild the roof but I've never come across anyone actually reporting a higher selling price being achieved.

How many of the plans for those houses currently mandates solar water heating?

"Early adopters" of this have been around since 1970 all chanting "price will come down any day now - honest Guv". It still hasn't.

If you're using bottled gas then solar heating may make sense. If you run a typical mains gas heated 108m2 detached house built to 2001- standards with a condensing boiler through the SAP-2001 model you get a total energy cost for heating and DHW of £173 (2001 prices) which reduces to £158 if you add a 4m2 solar panel.

The new Part L Approved Document which comes into force next April might just increase interest in solar heating since it sets a total CO2 target for a new dwelling: if you add solar heating (etc) you have the potential to reduce insulation levels elsewhere. Truth be told it would be far more useful to ensure that *every* loft in the country had 100mm of insulation.

So it's sensible to watch and wait about solar hot water until either a rise in fuel prices or lowering costs of solar or both make the idea viable. I've been doing that since about 1977 when I was planning to build and install a very cheap home made system using old radiators and suchlike for fun (I had a big south facing garden so they didn't need to go on the roof). It never happened for other reasons but I've continued to consider solar. I like the idea, but so far I've not been able to see a financial benefit even on a DIY installation.

So I'll just wait a bit longer.

Edgar

So I have measured over many years. On a cloudy, rainy summer day the output was very low and inadequate by itself to provide hot water. Those conditions sometimes prevailed for several days on the run between late spring and early autumn.

It isn't that uncommon for such comments to be entirely made up - a glance at any national double glazing or kitchen fitting companies web site will provide you with examples.

However, assuming they are real, do you really think they represent the full range of responses or do you think there is just a slight possibility the company selling the gizmos and also publishing the letters would only select the favourable comments to publish?