So nice to see a pro in action...

Was chatting to a neighbour the other day, who wanted to replace his old combi with something a bit more modern. He wanted to know what sort of thing to fit etc. So I gave him some suggestions, and recommened that he go for something with a decent power output so as to not get clobbered with poor hot water performance again (one of the problems with his old boiler). He wondered if I could fit it for him, but I suggested he got some quotes from CORGI bods since they would be able to give him all the required paperwork, and I pointed out that although I could fit my own boiler, I would not legally be able to fit one for "reward" for him. I said if he could not get any sensible quotes then perhaps we could work something out.

Anyway, he went with what looked like a reasonable quote from a local firm. Alas ignoiring most of the advice and going for a Biasi 28kW boiler with two part heat exchanger!

Next the fun started:

I get a call from him yesterday, asking if I had a 28mm drill be that he could borrow since said boiler fitter wanted one and did not have one! Alas I told him that I did not have one. However since I was a bit busy at the time I did not go into why he wanted it. Apparently the fitter said "never mind, I can manage without".

I pondered today that perhaps he wanted to take the new gas pipe outside, along, and back in again rather than route it through the house, and that he planed to sleave the 22mm pipe in a larger size when going through the wall). As it turns out, not exactly!

I got to see the results of his efforts today: first impression; the boiler is mounted at a slight angle (not far, only a couple of degrees, but it shows up nicely against the tiles!) Mrs Neighbour was convinced the fitter was actually drunk when on site.

Next odd thing, what looks like two pressure release blow off pipes taken outside - the original one left over from the last combi, and a new one five inches away (at the top that is, more like nine inches at the bottom - i.e. even more on the piss than the boiler). Aparently the

28mm drill bit was not for anything sophisticated like a sleaved gas pipe, but was instead desired to take the condensate drain outside. Having been thwarted in getting a plastic pipe outside, our professional decides to make up a drain pipe in 15mm copper and install it just like a blow off pipe - draining onto the path beside the house. Next he solves the interface problem between said pipe and the flexible 22mm plastic pipe that leave the boiler by winding many turns of insulating tape onto the end of the 15mm copper pipe such that it can now be stuffed into the end of the condensate driain pipe. Eschewing the secondary water trap with air break as required in the installation instructions... (and the frost protection, and the use of plastic etc).

Finally our hero leaves, noting that he ought to replace his nice Danfoss programmable room stat with a mechanical honywell one, since "it is not compatible" with the boiler and hence he has not connected it up, and "anyway you don't need one really since you can rely on the TRVs to control the room temperature". The flue hole he bored right beside (and a little overlapping) the old flue position - but neglected to fill with anything ("I will be back tommorow to fill that").

Today the fitters mate turns up. This chap *is* a CORGI, (turns out the last bod was not). He "inspects" and "signs off" the work - taking the prcautionary measure of fixing the multiple gas leaks that Mr. Pro left the day before! Omiting to fill out the more detailed bits of the benchmark logbook (gas rate etc), and as a parting gesture he then explains that "you need to fill in this form and send it to building control along with a cheque for £80 in order to get your building regs complinace notice"

Nice one|!

Reply to
John Rumm
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If= the facts are as you say, fitter #1 should be prosecuted for doing work requiring a corgi registration, fitter #2 should loose his registration, and the cost of remedial work by a 3rd party deducted from the overall bill.

I think this one deserves a name and shame.

Reply to
dom

Quite and send it to a TV show for further rebukingwellment.

Reply to
Weatherlawyer

On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 07:28:49 +0100, Weatherlawyer wrote (in article ):

... and the neighbour taken into a place of care. Clearly he isn't capable of managing his own affairs.

Having said that, it appears that he bought on price and got what he paid for.

Reply to
Andy Hall

In message , Andy Hall wrote

Doesn't it just prove that cowboys come with CORGI approval?

Reply to
Alan

Quite so. As soon as the Biasi was the chosen unit I knew which end of the market was involved.

Anyone working under my supervision for gas work does not get left alone to leave leaks.

There are not enough pros to go around we all know that. The best use of my time is supervising others doing the work. The intention is that they will become registered when they have built up the requisite knowledge and experience. [1]

The OP's example shows complete failure to adequately supervise the installation, and I agree the work is scandalous.

I would take issue about the gas rate not being entered on the log book. This is an area where the regulations have not caught up with the technology.

Firstly the regs themselves only say (Reg 26(9)d) "... the operating pressure or the heat input or where necessary both..." In practice this means the gas rate would only be measured if there was some cause for concern.

Secondly many modern appliances have fully automatic combustion controls which make it hard to ensure thee burner is at full rate for the required time (around 3mins or more). It is far more sensible to get the combustion analyser on these and measure the CO2% and CO:CO2 ratio, but the law does require this action.

[1]This latter depends very much on the college/assessment centre. In practice it seems to be a rather arbitrary amount. It seems to be roughly a sliding scale where the certified experience reduces with the candidates age. (Say a 19 year old with NVQ in plumbing needs about 150 days work experience. Whereas a 40 year old with other construction industry experience needs less+).
Reply to
Ed Sirett

Another 'Cowboy Supporter'

With this 'you got what you paid for attitude' amongst many posters ecouraging cowboys it is no wonder that more and more draconian laws have to be passed to protect the unsuspecting public.

And they are usually the first pratts to go whingeing on about the number of regulations.

Reply to
Bookworm

That's a bit harsh Andy.

Leaky pipework and a wonky installation, maybe, but he never deserved a Biasi :-|

Reply to
John Stumbles

On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 16:32:33 +0100, Bookworm wrote (in article ):

You're missing my point, entirely. I am far from being a supporter of cowboys.

The point was all about completely ignoring sound advice and going off and paying the least money, while not really taking the trouble to research the purchase or ask for further advice.

Except that they often don't as in this case.

There are two main aspects of customers that attract cowboys:

- Wanting things on the cheap (although that does not mean that cowboys are always cheap because of

- Gullibility and lack of research when making a purchase

Legislation can only go a very limited way towards addressing either of these because the the first often goes outside the scanners of any legislation or its implementation.

Consumer education only goes as far as people are willing or able to be educated or have the nouse to figure things out. Unfortunately this attitude seems to go hand in hand with looking for the cheapest price/service So it really doesn't matter how much legislation there is - there will always be a ready market for cowboys among the gullible. They can be seen in newsagents, petrol stations and supermarkets every Saturday buying Lottery tickets. Easy marketing for cowboys would be to hand out leaflets to such people - they've already been sucked into one thing.

Here we have a situation where the individual made all the wrong moves despite being advised on what would be good and then not recognising a flakey deal (why was it cheap?) and finally being almost oblivious to the poor outcome.

Legislation is not going to protect such people from themselves...

Reply to
Andy Hall

If he /was/ CORGI approved then why did he suggest the householder gets approval from the council -- he should have been able to sign it off himself via CORGI.

Reply to
<me9

To be fair he did explain his logic for his decision making process. Since he has a full service contract on the boiler (not BG, but the same sort of thing), and intends to keep this going for the new boiler, he figured the boiler reliability was not that important since he can get someone one site to fix it within 24 hours of it going titsup, and, he figures it only needs last 15 years overall to see him out!

I expect had he have realised the fitter was going to be quite so bad he would have gone with another higher quote!

Probably not totally the case here, but price was obviously one factor.

I think my comment of "£499 at B&Q" ought to have covered that one when he was asking about if I havd heard of Biasi ;-)

Reply to
John Rumm

The message from Stuart Noble contains these words:

Trouble is, it's turning us all into scofflaws. I would prefer not to break the rules, but since the rules are so dumb I will.

The proposed bicycle helmet law will do the same. There's no way the kids are going to put helmets on to go 50 yards to their friend's house, and any bloody MP who thinks they're going to is out of his tree. But it'll be a legal requirement sooner or later and we'll all end up with even more contempt for the law than we have already.

Reply to
Guy King

In article , Guy King writes

Ours do that their on their bikes to school.

Their mother makes them, and they don't argue with her..

And I don't either.. I've learnt not to;)

Reply to
tony sayer

The message from tony sayer contains these words:

Sure, on a planned trip, but can you see a bunch of small boys on a summer's day who are hopping on and off their bikes every few minutes stopping each time to put helmets on?

Reply to
Guy King

First I've heard of this, it's my favoured form of transport locally but I am easily tempted back to the car.

AJH

Reply to
AJH

And then you will be forced to wear your seatbelt.

Adam

Reply to
ARWadsworth

Some even more than brain dead than usual MSP wants drug addicts to sign a "social contract" that they won't procreate.

How they'll enforce that one I don't know - superglue?

Owain

Reply to
Owain

The message from Owain contains these words:

Bromide in the methadone.

Reply to
Guy King

There's probably a crash helmet law in Greece but I've yet to see anyone wearing one. Shorts, t shirt, and a couple of toddlers on the handlebars is the norm

Reply to
Stuart Noble

He went a registered Corgi company. Who else dopes he go to? Is there star ratings for Corgi men, and he went to a one star?

What tripe!!!! The man went a Corgi registered firm. He should expect a good quality job if a Viessmann or a BIASI was fitted. The man was cheated all the way down the line. Building Control. Corgi are self certifying.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

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