Snags with submain, extending meter tails

Nov 11, 2008 27 Replies

John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

Agreed, they'll generally discriminate for faults upto around 2-3kA + even for the biggest final circuit MCB.

Hager do an interesting range of MCBs, the HMF series, type C in double pole upto 100A which will discriminate with most of the standard Hager CU MCBs (and presumably RCBOs, need to check, not in the data sheet).

Discrimination is close though, with the max fault current limited to 600A in one common case. That's quite close. Chances are that a fault any distance down a final circuit would be OK, but close to the CU might be borderline. OTOH, despite Hager failing to quote a let-though energy figure for the 100A device, I suspect it would, looking at data for the lower current devices in the range.

One of those design choices that's not obvious, but a balance of compromises...

I should perhaps clarify that the shed submain would originate at the CU too, so distribution characterstics upto the CU are common to both solutions.

What I found was that using separate circuits, one can take advantage of the permissible volt drop being 5% of nominal supply voltage for non lighting circuits (lighting being 3% of course). With lighting rolled in on a 38A combined circuit, it meant a jump to the next size of cable (10mm2 in this case, rather than 6mm2 which would be fine for a 32A socket circuit). I have chosen 5A to be the design load on the leg of the lighting circuit going to the shed - should be suitably overstated.

The "wastage" of running a second bit of 1.5mm2 is mitigated by the the fact that there'll be a bit of 1.5mm2 running in that general direction from the house for lighting on another tool shed and any other lighting requirments in the garden. It's a very specific set of conditions I have, but teh twin circuit solution does buy guaranteed discrimination of shed lights vs shed angle grinder on shed socket, whereas that's a very close call for a submain.

It's not the classic solution, but I don't feel it's weird beyond it's merits.

I should have said - it's an all RCBO solution. That's one of the reasons I settled on Hager - generic single pole RCBOs are around 20-something + VAT,

30-something for type C which isn't bad for a quality brand.

Nice :)

Ow!

Cheers

Tim

Ah, sorry had missed that bit about RCBOs. Yes in which case separating outside circuits is less of an issue anyway. (about the only capability you lose is the ability to shut off all outside power with the flick of one switch)

Hi

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It would of course be essential if the earthing were TT. It may be required to get [...]

You can be 100% certain, IMHO, that they will require a fuse (or cct breaker) and not just a switch-disconnector, regardless of discrimination (lack of) and however nonsensical it may appear from a purely technical point of view. Demarcation of design responsibility is the issue, see my previous comments here:

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?hl=en&dmode=sourceBTW are you sure the main fuse is 100 A? TN-S suggests an older supply, likely to have a 60 or 80 A fuse fitted, perhaps.

Hi Andy,

Andy Wade coughed up some electrons that declared:

Demarcation - yes that seems a good point.

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read them - most informative, thank you.

No, it's really 100A by all indications. There's a sticker on the cutout that says BS1361 100A. Haven't looked at the fuse, obviously... An early conversation with EDF on the phone, they managed to dig up the records. The supply connection was replaced and a new head and meter fitted within the last 10 years and they confirmed the supply was good for 100A max.

They also told me the local network was suitable for TN-S and TN-C-S possibly explains the excellent Ze readings I'm getting?

Cheers

Tim

FWIW, that's the setup I have, and I can only remember one trip in the last year (which may have been associated with a blowing bulb). Of course, I've probably jinxed it now :-)

On the excellent advice from this group, though, I did add my shed supply as its own submain rather than tempt fate with the single spare CU way.

Pete

Fairynuff.

Your reading - around the 0.2 ohm mark - is pretty typical, IME, for urban domestic supplies.

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