Small electric boiler? Featured

That's why I prefer a good stream of water as it washes off the soap a lot better than other methods.

I don't know how hot the water is. Maybe it's hotter for a prewash to loosen or soften food which has solidified of otherwise stuck to the plate.

Yes, but I think that's a different matter as the water is boiling, and that leads to decomposition of salts such as soluble bicarbonates to insoluble carbonates. With instant water heaters the water temperature stays well below boiling.

Agreed.

Well, according to the front panel of ours, 50, 65 or 70 DegC?

It may mention the process in the instruction manual, if I can find a copy.

Ah, Ok.

Or should <g>, although you can sometimes hear them sizzling. Might the water around the heater element be hotter than the surrounding water, if it's a storage type (with no 'flow' to dissipate the water more)?

Cheers, T i m

I've just checked the manual for ours, and it says it goes up to 70°C - with several washes at that temp for "ultra-clean" (It's a Smeg - there's posh for you! - that was left here when we moved in. We've used it only a dozen times or so in the past 8 years, as I can't be bothered to fuff around loading and unloading it as there's only the two of us. We use it as a storage cupboard for cold drinks!).

According to the Smeg's manual, the prewash is effectively a cold soak to soften anything on the plates, etc.

I think the storage type heaters can can get up to almost boiling if that's what you want. I'm pretty sure the continuous flow ones couldn't get anywhere near that even if you wanted them to without a 10kW+ supply.

Do they all have thermostats? I was wondering if they apply the cheap electric shower approach which is to bang 8-10kW into the incoming water feed without paying a lot of attention to the inlet temperature or flow rate (beyond simple cutouts). That is less good when the pressure drops, and very much less good when there could be a 50C range in the inlet temperature.

Reason I ask is that I watched a video of someone who had his ASHP set to make the tank 40C and used that neat for washing. That's much more efficient than running at 60C and then mixing down again. (You still do a Legionella cycle once a week to kill off the nasties). But 40C water isn't ideal for dish washing, so wondered if a boost was feasible...

Theo

get a dog. Polished clean plates which are then easy to 'wash'

Not a lot of people know that there's a long forgotten canal tunnel linking Arun and Rother at Hardham:

Theo

No. British Rail tipped hundreds of tons of readymix into it back in the 1960's where it goes under the Arun Valley railway line (which prevents any hope of ever reopening it to boats).

The path of the canal is still obvious and is a local footpath. It is derelict, as is the original lock on the other side of the railway line and A29. Good place to study ducks, and other water birds.

The new Southern Water river inlet was built from scratch.

So is it *that* it goes under railway that would prevent re-opening for some reason ... because a bit of concrete has rarely stopped tenacious volunteer engineers from re-opening all sorts of stuff (locks / tunnels / cuttings etc?). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Erm, both our Multipoint gas water heater and Triton T80 shower seem able to modulate the output flow to maintain a constant temperature but I'm not sure how well. Not a (safety) problem when the input water goes from hot to cold ...

Our shower deals with that 'a bit' and I put a flow restrictor valve on the toilet cistern feed to minimise the impact of water pressure drop to the shower output temperature.

Good point.

Agreed.

Noted.

All good thoughts / points and there may (therefore) be a smaller list of devices that may deal with any / all of that better than some.

If I was going to run an instant hand washer *anyway* (just on the cold feed) it wouldn't take much to jury rig (a 3kW) one up to the unused hot feed to our WM and see how / if it copes?

Cheers, T i m

That's what our inherited one does ('Diplomat'). It's pants. You put in greasy oven trays or oven dishes and it bakes on the grease for you.

The problem with hot fill on dishwashers is that egg proteins coagulate with hot water, whereas filling cold before heating dilutes them enough to prevent coagulation.

I think they spray hot water around. This is why crockery (which has a high thermal mass) dries better than plastic (which doesn't).

We have an instant on a sink that's been retrofitted away from the main plumbing. The leg would be maybe 8m from the tank, which is a bit much for drawing from cold, especially if you're just washing your hands. OTOH the instant is on a 13A plug and isn't much good at heating either - it takes a long time to get going and doesn't give much more than a trickle.

Also, it seems to be beyond plumbers to insulate their internal pipes to avoid cold legs. That's no help on taps you might use once a day, but would seem to be a no-brainer for the bathroom/kitchen tap that get used regularly.

Theo

Left to itself, the water couldn't evaporate off the plates, as the whole of the inside is hot and steamy. The manufacturers have thought of that. Dishwashers have a labyrinth of cold water pipes attached to the outside of the washing compartment. That condenses enough of the steam so that water can evaporate off the plates.

The wash temperature matters. The hotter washes leave drier plates.

LOL!

Ah, clever.

Check. I wasn't sure if the level of steam was from sprayed hot water or water evaporating off the stuff.

Noted.

Time roughly? More than 5-6 seconds?

So we are talking more of a host outlet than a spray here?

That's what I thought but my builder suggested to leave them bare so they would benefit form any surrounding heat, and hopefully stopping them freezing in the winter if the place was left unheated? Only for those pipes running though the downstairs ceilings obviously.

If you were to lag those pipes efficiently I wonder if you could keep the whole pip hot (or warm at least) with a thermostatic heater wire and if it would be any less economical than buying / fitting / running a real supplementary water heater?

If all we are doing is buying some time by removing the cold leg, what if we removed the 'cold' part of the leg? ;-)

If you couldn't insulate the whole pipe properly there could be the chance of gravity / convection circulation within the pipe itself, spreading the heat to any sections without good insulation?

Or if I get rid of the tumble dryer and re-position the multipoint heater in the utility area, then the pipe runs to both hand basin, bath and sink would only be a couple of meters. ;-)

What are the rules re a balanced flue terminal being over the pavement (EOT)? (it's there atm but 20' above the pavement, not 6'). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

The canal predated the railway which just infilled the canal with spoil and went over the top. BR later 'improved' the infill with ready mixed concrete. Opening the canal would only be possible by dropping its level to such an extent that the connections to the river at either end would be 'tricky'.

Ah, thanks.

Cheers, T i m

Clever, it's own little still. ;-)

That was one of the two ways I thought it might work, given you do get a fair cloud of steam out of it if you open the door just after it's finished.

Clever really (how / that they work) and something we probably take for granted.

I think the only thing we haven't had much success with over two machines now is the little soap dispenser door thing when it doesn't open at all (randomly)?

So I think she just chucks the (typically 'Finish') tab on one of the racks.

Cheers, T i m

LoL!

And as an added bonus they can be induced to eat your surplus to requirements Granny.