Slightly OT : Keeping Something Warm

underfoor heating firm uponor do a foil backed bubble wrap designed for added heat reflectance.

my girlfriends brother posts ice cream for his business using well insulated boxes, so this idea is definitely possible. have you considered including some form of heat retainer such as those microwaveable pocket hand warmers?

ben

Reply to
watereed2003
Loading thread data ...

IIRC, the import of dead tropical corals is forbidden. That's not what the OP is talking about.

Reply to
Huge

Like all things environmental, there are many aspects.

The most sensitive and endangered species of coral are protected with CITES appendix 1 where their natural environments are not threatened in themselves. One big problem is that the natural environments for many of them in themselves are threatened from all manner of deliberate and careless activities; so just doing nothing is not the right answer. Of these there are some species where it is simply not possible to maintain them or breed them outside their natural environment. Given that this is getting worse in many cases (not through harvesting in most cases); if nothing is done at all to make captive breeding possible, they will inevitably not survive.

Appendix 2 covers species where there is better availability and where it is possible to maintain and breed in captivity. Much of the work and the success in the marine area for this to happen has been through people willing to invest their time and money on captive maintenance and breeding. Particularly in the area of marine fish and even more so in the area of marine invertebrates, huge successes have been achieved in the last 10-20 years as technology has improved as well as the understanding of conditions and water chemistry required.

I'll give you a different example. I keep and breed snakes - specifically Brazilian Rainbow Boas (Epicrates Cenchria Cenchria). These have a natural habitat of the rain forest and there numbers in the wild have fallen dramatically in recent years. Boidae in general are now on CITES appendix 2 with a few species on appendix 1.

However, it is possible, relatively easily to maintain and breed them in captivity. Ultimately they are not threatened as a species and have the potential to be re-introduced when the political and economic climate changes. I say that it's relatively easy. To maintain these animals requires maintaining their temperature at between 27 and

30 degrees (although less critically than fish) and importantly the humidity of their environment at 50-80% relative. Moreover, for breeding purposes, a temperature drop has to be created over a controlled period to cause them to mate and for their reproductive systems to work. I built all of the systems to do this myself (to bring this back to being a DIY project). Heating has to be carefully arranged because of water being around and is backed up. Humidity is controlled with a misting system driven by pumps, also backed up. I log what's going on by computer as well.

None of this is cheap to do and frankly I make no money from it. Sadly I can only do this for one species because they can't really be mixed, but each time there are neonates I'm reminded that it's very worthwhile.

If we had a perfect world where there wasn't environmental destruction, I might agree that species should be left alone. However, we don't have that and are not likely to. Since much of the destruction is careless and consequential from man's activities rather than directly because of it, I think that it is environmentally responsible to select and maintain some, where and if it can be done until environmental issues can be resolved.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Boy, you are odd.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Hmmm! do you know exactly what the OP has intended to do, by bringing them in live? Dead they would not be allowed in.

Reply to
ben

Why is he odd? just because he believes in a cause, doesn't mean he's weird.

Reply to
ben

Keeps snakes? That is odd. They should;don't any creature into this country which is not indigenous. They could acclimatise and breed. They last thing we want is insects and snakes around.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel
[snip]

He's no more odd than people who keep Monkey's,Tigers or African greys.

Reply to
ben

That was done some years ago to discourage a common practice of dynamiting reefs to get hard corals for gift shops. It was easy money for them. Governments in countries with reefs have been moderately effective at enforcement of this and also of another unsavoury practice of dropping drugs (typically dilute cyanides) over the side of boats to make fish for shipment easier to catch. While this typically didn't kill the fish outright, it did severely weaken them. Again it has been cut substantially by having responsible and retricted trade controls which also look at sustainability.

There are all manners of inconsistency though. Some species of Surgeon fish aka Tangs (Acanthurus) were going to be CITES listed, although in fact are moderately plentiful and even show up in fish markets as edible fish. Same with Lionfish (Pterois).

The ivory trade was banned because of dwindling elephant numbers in certain areas of Africa. In fact, more elephant were lost with the unrelated wars going on in Angola and environs than with elephant hunting explicitly. A few months ago, I made a visit to Botswana and saw a heard of approximately 300 elephant making their way through the bush. An amazing sight that I'll never forget. Sadly, they are having to consider culling as one option because the vegetation is inadequate to support the numbers and there are signs of some losing weight and dying anyway. Their best hope is a trucking program north into some of the areas of Angola formerly wrecked by man's inhumanity to man.

These are all difficult issues, and unless one understands the totality of the situation; looking from afar often results in decisions and restrictions on a mainly emotive basis rather than the ones that actually make sense for species survival.

Reply to
Andy Hall

They allow you don't they?

Don't be stupid. Nobody is suggesting introduction of non-native species that could acclimatise.

There is absolutely no way that a snake from the tropical rain forest could last in a non maintained environment in the UK for more than a couple of days. It is too cold and too dry.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Rather different. Ice cream is some half (or more) by weight of ice. This is a whole lot of stored energy, 1l of ice has about as much stored energy as 20l of water heated through 10C.

Reply to
Ian Stirling

Are you kidding? This one is "odd".

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

The official SI unit is a Drivel Bath.

Reply to
Matt

We're all odd. Some are odd in worthwhile pursuits.

Reply to
John Cartmell

No butterflies? No bees?

Reply to
John Cartmell

I have been adopted by a butterfly. He (she? it?) has flown in through the window almost every day this week, and last night spent the night on the bedroom ceiling.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

You are probably right these coral farmers use TNT for livestock:

formatting link

Reply to
madmax

formatting link
"Each livestock order is sent to you in a specially designed polystyrene container which is enclosed by a single skin cardboard box. Your livestock item is placed carefully into either a double or treble lined polythene bag and then inflated with pure oxygen. Once placed into the polystyrene box special heat packs are added carefully which keep the livestock bags at the ideal temperature for up to 24 hours. "

"We use two different courier companies depending upon what is being sent. TNT are used exclusively for livestock deliveries "

Reply to
madmax

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.