Shower non-return valves

OK, not politics, a DIY question.

The flow on our shower (mixer, gravity fed) has been gradually reducing. I tried to look at it, and found it wasn't designed for easy access. It's buried behind the tiles. so **** it I paid a plumber. I'm now regretting it :(

He first suggested that it was probably the thermostatic mixer valve. He got me to order a new one from Bristan, and came back and fitted it.

No difference.

The next idea was the non-return valves on the inlet. He used something like a big Dremel to cut away the tiles a little, leaving a hole just big enough for access, but small enough so the decor plate covers it.

He told me it doesn't need the valves, and broke them out. I say broke - they came out in bits.

The next idea was to check the inlet. It's got filters on both sides, and the one on the hot side had some bits of bug in it. (A couple of wings, and what looked like the chitinous exoskeleton of a hymenopteran. I know more about bugs than plumbing!).

He replaced that one, put it back together, and all was well.

My wife even commented that it seems to warm up much faster than it used to.

But then a few days later, but only after we'd paid the bill, I turned on the cold tap in the basin next to it. It was hot.

It appears that the hot water is syphoning through the shower mixer, and back up the cold pipe. It's not enough flow for my worst fear - I recall a case a few years ago where a loft header tank got so hot that it softened and collapsed onto someone in the bed underneath, causing nasty scalds - but it's still wasting energy.

Now finally the question:

Should the plumber have known what the non-return valves are for? Should he come back and fix it? Should that be at his expense? The valves aren't much, but it'll take a while.

Thanks Andy

Reply to
Vir Campestris
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How much hot water was drawn?

Probably.

That depends on whether he told you the consequence of removing the check-valve?

Is there no other access to the pipework, it doesn't have to be at the shower head but any pipework leading to the head but after the basin.

Look for a valve with a flap or swing valve for maintaining maximum flow:

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You'd need 1/2" to 15mm compression fittings to connect to your 15mm copper pipe, or get 3/4" for connecting to 22mm pipe for the hot if 22mm?

A standard (sprung) check valve required a head of pressure before opening, hence the reduced flow rate.

You could always adjust your header tank so the water level is closer to the overflow for a slightly improved head of water?

Reply to
Fredxx

Why would you need NRVs if the hot and cold feeds are at the same pressure? The mixer should shut-off both H and C feeds so, if you have flow from H to C (why if they're both gravity fed?), the mixer is probably faulty.

Reply to
nothanks

I'm not sure, I haven't measured it - but the pipe back to the airing cupboard is hot, and it still feels slightly warm in a cupboard upstairs where the pipe runs.

He told me they weren't needed as this wasn't a mains fed shower.

Sadly the pipework comes from the airing/boiler cupboard, past the toilet, past the basin, and then into the mixer - and it's all hidden behind tiling.

When the filter isn't full of dead bug the flow is fine. This is a downstairs bathroom, and even though our ceilings are only about 2m there's a reasonable head from the top of the loft tank - perhaps 3m, which gives a third of an atmosphere.

Andy

Reply to
Vir Campestris

While they are nominally at the same pressure one of the pipes is full of hot water, and the other one full of cold.

The cold one goes from the tank to the bottom of the cylinder. It has slightly higher density than the water in the pipe that goes through the shower mixer, past the cold tap etc, then back up to the loft tank.

Which means the cold water sinks, forcing hot water out through the shower (it's actually, cold that sinks, not hot that rises!) heating up the pipe towards the loft tank.

I have of course worked this all out later...

Andy

Reply to
Vir Campestris

Ideally, given he can’t easily fit a NRV behind the shower control, he could try and find where the feed is either under the floor or above - the last ‘leg’ which only feeds the shower.

Reply to
Brian

Andy

Reply to
Vir Campestris

OK, I think my parent's non-pumped back-boiler CH system worked that way.

... but what sort of mixer is this? Every mixer that I've seen shuts-off H and C feeds when turned-off so there is only a possible connection between them when the shower is on.

Reply to
nothanks

What happened to me was instructive - it was years ago during the house build and commission phase when the cold water feed was at a very high pressure - many bar. The water company has since dropped it way back.

I had a shower head feed capped off and opened the shower control valve, and very high pressure cold water backfed into the HW tank - mains pressure one regulated down to 2,1 bar - and blew the safety valve.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Bristan.

It has two knobs; the upstream one sets the temperature through some sort of thermostatic thing so that the outflow is is at about the right temperature. The downstream one (nearest the head) sets the flow to the head.

Neither has separate shut-offs for the two feeds.

Andy

Reply to
Vir Campestris

Is it possible to swap the whole unit out and install a simple non-thermostatic one with two taps?

I am very much in favour of surface mounted bar mixers, as it's so easy to do maintenance simply by installing a new one.

Reply to
GB

The first plumber we called out agrees with you - he wouldn't touch it. It's several years too late to make that decision.

Andy

Reply to
Vir Campestris

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