Sewerage advice please

[Richard Colton]

My 81 year old father's neighbours have decided that they need a new bathroom in their house. This new bathroom is (of course) on the opposite side of the house to the existing utilities.

Now, there is a sewer that runs under my father's concrete drive, and they're insisting that they have the right to dig his drive up and connect to this sewer. Needless to say, my dad is somewhat less than impressed with this.

Fortunately we have a solicitor in the family who is in the process of requesting deed documents from the land registry, but the neighbours can be a tad pushy and are insisting that all he needs to do is contact building control to confirm their point of view.

This is in Rotherham by the way (if that makes any difference).

So my questions to the panel are:

1. Will they have a right of access to his property.
2. Will they have the right to dig his drive up to tap into the sewer.
3. If the answers to the above are yes, would he be entitled to compensation for lack of use of his drive for whatever period, plus any other inconveniences.
4. Should it all go pear shaped, now or in the future who would be responsible for rectification work should the sewer collapse or suffer any other damage.

TIA

[JimK]

uk.legal.moderated - or whatever?

sounds dodgy unless they can prove their "rights"

Jim K

[Tim Watts]

Building control have nothing to do with this particular problem - it is a legal one.

First - noone lays a finger on his drive until your solicitor says so. A firm Piss Off from you to them would be in order.

Is it a shared sewer under your dad's drive? Or is it only a branch for his house alone?

If the latter, they almost certainly have NO right to access it.

If the former, it should be mentioned in deeds, covenants etc.

Sounds like the latter as you say the "utilities are the other side of their house".

[A.Lee]

IANAL

No.

There will be a clause in the Deeds, allowing the sewers to *pass* through/over/under the property. (A wayleaf/ve) Any work to connect a new pipe to the existing must be either done on their property, or, via an agreement with the (yours) neighbouring property.

Building Control at the Council will confirm this, and IIRC, the water authority also have to agree to any new connections, though that may no longer hold true.

[Huge]

No.

[Nightjar]

They only have rights (and responsibilities) over drains up to the boundary of their own property. Beyond that point a drain becomes a lateral sewer (a sewer from that runs from the property boundary to a public sewer) or a public sewer (a sewer serving more than one property, even if on private land) and both are the responsibility of the sewerage company.

No, although the sewerage company would, if they agreed to creating a new shared sewer, which is unlikely.

The sewerage company, which is why they are unlikely to agree to creating a new shared sewer.

[charles]

As I understand it, "shared sewers" are now the responsibility of the sewage company, even if they are on private property. I assume it's Yorkshire Water in your case.

[Tim Watts]

It probably won't be a wayleave unless the sewer is a public sewer. I have a share private one serving a few houses and my covenant document (not the deeds per se) say I have to maintain my bit for the enjoyment of the other houses (see below re adoption).

Rather the reverse now I think:

A private shared sewer is now automatically the property of the water co as of a couple of years back (generic adoption was enacted by Westminster) , so they probably do want to know if you make a connection.

But it sounds like the OP's dad has a private *drain* and not ashared private sewer, so unless the deeds or a covenant say otherwise, his neighbours can bugger off.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Is it a shared sewer? You can often tell by looking at manholes etc in front of the houses. If everyone has one, probably individual. If one per two houses etc...

If it's shared, you likely need to check the deeds - it's possible he does have access rights.

I have a semi with a shared sewer. The two houses have the pipe running between them at the rear - and the main goes to the street under my house, in the cellar. It was replaced just before I bought it, with the costs shared. These days I believe it's the water company's responsibility.

[Bill Wright]

Yes, it makes a big difference. In Rotherham, if the neighbour is an immigrant he can do what he likes. His rights over-rule the rights of the indigenous people. If however it's your father who is an immigrant he can get the neighbour prosecuted for racial abuse.

Bill

[Another John]

The *first* people that I would contact are the water (i.e. sewerage) company: they will likely give you the best initial advice, since this kind of thing is [now] their responsibility. The neighbours should know this (via their architect, if nobody else.)

J.

[Nick]

Most definitely a matter that should be advised upon by solicitors at the neighbours cost, as it is they who are requesting access to your fathers drain. Is the drain under your fathers drive shared in any way at present? This will involve searches at Land Registry and no doubt some consultation with the local water authority. To get this done permissions will be required. This involves submitting detailed plans etc. Plans and submissions of them, plus requisite forms, all bear a cost. Not a five minute affair. If the neighbours wish to go through the process, merely inform them that they will have to go through legal channels at their own expense. I suppose some permission would have to be granted by your father (or the owner of his property). This could perhaps take the form of a legally binding wayleave or license at an agreed annual sum.

Pushy neighbours can be a pita. Be sure of the facts and inform them accordingly.

1. NO
2. NO
3. YES
4. The proprietor of the damaged drain.

Do not allow your father, or you, to be pushed around by these people. If your father is willing to grant them access then they will pay for the privilege.

An alternative worth suggesting might be a Saniflo macerator gadget. (I think it was Peter Parry's comments on such that I read recently).

Above is just my tuppence worth. You might be better asking at uk legal moderated.

Don't allow yourself or let your father be browbeaten by these people.

HTH

[Mike Barnes]

AAMOI if they actually start digging when Richard believes they have no right to - what can he do about it?

[fred]

Call the police, prowlers on the property, vulnerable individual in distress. As to charges, criminal damage and breach of the peace will do for a start (no, not a civil matter).

I imagine dad will have a garden fork somewhere in his possession and I imagine he could hold the offenders at bay until the police arrive.

[Chris French]

Call the police.

Whilst the trespass itself might not be criminal, digging up the drive would seem to be criminal damage.

It might also be criminal trespass under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.

[Mr Pounder]

If he is Muslim he can shag all of the kids and get away with it.

[Tim Watts]

Call the police for trespass and criminal damage.

[Sam Plusnet]

Honestly! You couldn't make it up.

Oh right. You just did.

[Bill]

In message , Nick writes

He would have to really dislike his neighbours to suggest using a Saniflo :-)

[harryagain]

There is recent new legislation about sewers. Private sewers that serve more than one house are now the responsibility of the local water company. But if it's for the one house they remain the responsibility of the householder inside their property boundary.

Maybe this has something to do with the issue?