Second opinion sought on wall build progress

I've currently got a guy in (I know, I know) building a couple of raised br ick beds. Whilst I'll do pretty much any DIY I've never been any good at pl astering or brickwork so I figured I'd pay to get a proper job done without stress... Or at least that was the plan!

I am a bit concerned about what appears to be a mixture of bricks being use d and I would welcome a second opinion whether I should be concerned or not , and what to do about it if need be.

For context, the raised beds are the two surrounding the arch in the follow ing sketch:

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Progress is seemingly going okay:

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...although I've had to do more supervision than I'd like to make sure thin gs were lining up with existing features and properly placed to accommodate the already-bought arch. This was all stuff that was pointed out during th e pre-build discussion yet, unsurprisingly perhaps given there was just lot s of nodding and 'yeah no problem' from the builder. It just hasn't been fo llowed up well enough in my view though.

Of current concern however is that two brick 'types' appear to have been us ed. At my request, he's using Bekstone Golden Buff

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but there appears to be a mixtur e of 'pitched' and 'tumbled' on the job:

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i.e. the pitched one (on the right) has one smooth face (the other rough) w hereas the tumbled (left) has both faces rough.

Would it be normal, or even acceptable, to mix two types in a single wall? YYou can see there are some pitched ones in use here:

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...and I don't think they're noticeable on the outside:

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...so perhaps he does know but doesn't consider it an issue. However, he ha s slipped up with this half brick on the corner:

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...which makes me wonder if maybe he hasn't noticed. Or is this just an iso lated mistake?

Now, that corner will need to be rectified (I can confirm that the rough si de is on the inside!) but should I be concerned about the others? I certain ly don't want any pitched bricks (i.e. one side smooth) used in the top cou ple of layers because they'll be above the bed soil line and thus visible f rom both sides.

As I say, I'd welcome your thoughts on the situation. Should I be worried t hat he may not have noticed, or maybe more worried that has has noticed but not said or done anything about it? I've left a message with him to get in touch so to be fair he hasn't had chance to comment yet, but I thought it worthwhile seeing what unbiased rational folk might thinking - uk.d-i-y mem bers can chip in too... ;-)

Admittedly, it's yet another 'issue' I've had with the build and so perhaps I am being overly sensitive so please don't hesitate to impart some proper perspective if you think it deserves it!

Mathew

Reply to
Mathew Newton
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brick beds. Whilst I'll do pretty much any DIY I've never been any good at plastering or brickwork so I figured I'd pay to get a proper job done witho ut stress... Or at least that was the plan!

sed and I would welcome a second opinion whether I should be concerned or n ot, and what to do about it if need be.

owing sketch:

ings were lining up with existing features and properly placed to accommoda te the already-bought arch. This was all stuff that was pointed out during the pre-build discussion yet, unsurprisingly perhaps given there was just l ots of nodding and 'yeah no problem' from the builder. It just hasn't been followed up well enough in my view though.

used. At my request, he's using Bekstone Golden Buff

formatting link
but there appears to be a mixt ure of 'pitched' and 'tumbled' on the job:

whereas the tumbled (left) has both faces rough.

? YYou can see there are some pitched ones in use here:

has slipped up with this half brick on the corner:

solated mistake?

side is on the inside!) but should I be concerned about the others? I certa inly don't want any pitched bricks (i.e. one side smooth) used in the top c ouple of layers because they'll be above the bed soil line and thus visible from both sides.

that he may not have noticed, or maybe more worried that has has noticed b ut not said or done anything about it? I've left a message with him to get in touch so to be fair he hasn't had chance to comment yet, but I thought i t worthwhile seeing what unbiased rational folk might thinking - uk.d-i-y m embers can chip in too... ;-)

ps I am being overly sensitive so please don't hesitate to impart some prop er perspective if you think it deserves it!

well if that sketch is all thats on paper I can see where its going to go.

I'd collar him with a cuppa and nail dimensions etc down on site and stress how important it is to you to be "right" & you won't be paying up if its n ot as you want - but he'll need something to refer to and ideally you (both ) need markings on the ground to confirm layout etc. and you'll need to che ck regularly unless you;ve written a contract and you like small claims/bro ken windows etc...?

Show him the half brick and say specifically "no more of that" you want all pitched faces none of the smooth faces on show anywhere?

Jim K

Reply to
Jim K

We're all sorted on the alignment/positioning front, through a combination of me being on-site during the early stages and some dimensioned drawings p roduced to remove an ambiguities. I mentioned those aspects more to highlig ht that the 'history' of the build may be making more sensitive to continue d issues.

Do you think I should stop there? Or should I be bothered there were even a ny pitched bricks being used at all? Tumbled was the spec.

All in all I want it to all work out, obviously, and I don't want to make t hings personal. He's a nice bloke; I'm just concerned about his attention t o detail and that I feel like I'm having to supervise him throughout.

Reply to
Mathew Newton

Can't see why not if you keep the facing sides matching.

Probably...

Might be worth mentioning to him that you would prefer he not use them on the top courses where the back of the brick will be visible.

The fact that he has got them all (bar one) round the right way suggests he knows.

Perhaps he could not source enough of the required type, and had to take extras in the other?

I get the impression you may be worrying a bit too much, but as you say if it comes on the end of a list of other issues it is perhaps understandable.

Reply to
John Rumm

You've probably hit the nail on the head. I'd be the first to admit I can b e over-sensitive, and indeed that's largely why I usually always DIY. Of co urse, I'm very critical even then but at least it's only of myself.

I'm glad I didn't contact the builder as soon as I spotted the odd bricks - I was fuming then as I'd just about had enough. But as the hours have gone by I'm a lot calmer now, and am even seeing the funny side of how typical it is that something else has cropped up! By the time he gets in touch I'm hoping we can laugh about it and simply agreed how to proceed.

Reply to
Mathew Newton

It might be ok if no-one was ever going to see the difference in the inside edges, but if there was a shortage of the rough-looking stones I'd expect the smooth ones to have been used at the bottom of the wall where their inside edges will always be hidden by soil.

With the current work my attitude would depend a little on how full of earth I expected these planters to be. If they're going to have soil right up to the top, so it'll be impossible to see any difference in the brick types, then maybe it's ok. But if I was going to have the soil stop even 1/4" below the brim, so the difference was visible, I'd be annoyed.

It just looks sloppy to me; it makes me wonder if there's other aspects of the wall that have been done sloppily - is the foundation adequate for example, and has the mortar been mixed properly.

The wrong brick on the corner (in the closeup) could I suppose be hidden by a shrub. If it was the only flaw I'd probably tell the builder I was unhappy, but live with it.

The overall finish of the inside of the wall looks poor to me.

Reply to
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

On Saturday, 12 October 2013 15:05:43 UTC+1, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wr ote:

I should've said; there are two more courses to go on - that's why I stacke d the two bricks at the front to remind the builder of the fact!

Don't get me worried even more! ;-) I was actually quite impressed with the footings once they were down. That said, I'm no expert so I was really goi ng off neatness and how evenly level it was across the garden.

Yes, the inside does look poor. I did however assume that might be fairly t ypical for a side that wouldn't be seen - the exterior looks good enough fo r me. Even there I have noticed that the tumbled brick does somewhat preven t somewhat an ultra neat finish and perhaps that's exactly how it should be given the style of brick.

Reply to
Mathew Newton

typical for a side that wouldn't be seen...

I don't think that should mean that there are gaps in the pointing though, except for the drainage holes.

Reply to
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

Yes; I see what you mean.

Incidentally, I've fixed one of the broken links so the exterior can now be seen:

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It's amazing that cocked-eyed brick isn't noticeable from the outside!

Mathew

Reply to
Mathew Newton

who points the back to earth side of a garden wall??

Jim K

Reply to
Jim K

er you can see the effect in the course above though...

Jim K

Reply to
Jim K

Aargh! I didn't until you pointed it out!

Maybe getting a second opinion was a bad idea afterall! ;-)

Reply to
Mathew Newton

But on the other side of the coin, *you* are paying *him* to do the job that

*you* want. It's you that's got to look at his work every day long after he's gone, so if it's not right then you need to tell him now. If you can live with it, then that's good too.

It's a shame you didn't try it yourself, I did a similar thing in my own garden years ago and with the guidance of a friend who knew how to lay bricks (DIY, not a builder) I managed to do it all myself and it turned out fine. Bricklaying is fun and if you mess up, you can knock it down and start again :)

Reply to
Mentalguy2k8

There might still be opportunity to do that yet!

Reply to
Mathew Newton

Where's the Usenet "Like" button? Sense of perspective is that second cousin to the equally rare "common sense." In this vein I offer:

  • I have a friend who likes to have a nice car. He can't afford a new car or an A1 old car so he has a quite reasonable 10 year old one. Fine. But he only ever looks at it from about 6" away and thereby finding imperceptible colour changes, tiny scratches or evidence of a (perfectly acceptible) repair job. From 6' away, the distance normal people look at cars from, it looks immaculate and they tell him so. But he's still never, ever happy.
  • I do installation work in churches[1] from time to time. Now, unlike businesses where time is money, churches are entirely full of people whiling away their excess spare time (or retirement (or both)) who want to stick their nose and/or oar into what you're doing. It doesn't matter that they're pleading penury and the pricing is thus aimed at the "miserly git" end of the budgetry range (and usually beaten down further before being agreed) but they want the moon on a glittery stick for it. Anyway, for some reason, they can only ever see the work from the aformentioned 6" away with tuts of "oooh, people won't like that", even if it's perfectly neat and in a dark corner.

Back to the original. He's made a good job of that. Earlier, when I could only see the inside, I wasn't expecting great things, but it's a world away from what it could be. Shame about the wonky one but a) I bet it's almost unnoticeable when you're not lying on your stomach (the 6" rule) and b) it'll disappear with the next course.

[1] Have just read that back it makes me sound like a nail people to crosses. And, with some of the cretins I meet, that'd be a damn good idea.
Reply to
Scott M

Thanks Steve. All very valid points and well illustrated - I have taken the m on board.

This is why I posted here; to help calibrate my own sense of perspective wi th that of a 'reasonable person'. I'd like to think I too was reasonable, b ut when you've only got the thoughts inside your head to battle things out it can be difficult to know where the 'correct' compromise should lie.

All that said, whilst I could be accused of being the person who views thin gs from 6" the builder knew this from the outset and shouldn't necessarilly expect me to accept the 6' job without challenge or at least some hesitati on.

Mathew

Reply to
Mathew Newton

Or Scott even!

(Apologies; so much for my claimed attention to detail!)

Reply to
Mathew Newton

No worries, Martin.

TBH, expecting perfection from builders is like wishing on stars. But it is a different scale of things. My background is engineering but I'll happily wave a trowel and mortar about. Only thing is, if I'm not careful, it'll takes me an age as I'll be trying to do it to engineering tolerences. I have a certain respect for the "oh sod it, that's good enough" school of thought - it has its place.

The half brick facing the wrong way is an interesting one though. It's obviously where he wasn't paying attention (sort of thing we've all done) and only noticed it later (which he will have done.) Now, if it was after the mortar set he's hoping you won't notice (which is human nature and understandable) and if it was before it set then it's blinding lazyness. If you could get an honest answer as to when he saw it then you'd probably learn much about which camp he falls into!

Prod him about the half brick now - if the mortar's still green enough it could be cut out fairly easily.

Reply to
Scott M

Got you already in the other post, but:

There but for the grace of god, etc, etc

;-)

(Actually, this is something that worries me a bit. Occasionally I will get all sanctamoneous about others' failings but I can't swear to be infallible and I won't fight those pointless arguments trying to justify not being wrong (which are the hallmark of the Very Often Wrong.))

Reply to
Scott M

In my old church in the UK, 40 years back one of our members ran a small building company. After a while he refused to quote for any church work as it was just too hard and didn't make money. Key problem was that assorted members would ask his men "while you're here could you ..."; they knew it was the boss's church so didn't like to say no and he felt he couldn't charge for it as the request hadn't been formally made.

Reply to
Tony Bryer

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