Replacing Switches...help required please.

Hi there, wonder if someone can help me as DIY books and google search not provided the answer.

I have fitted an outside yard bulkhead and run the wire to my socket for the kitchen.

Kitchen socket was originally a 2 way gang wired as one way with one rocker.

I want to wire in the bulkhead to my replacement fascia which has 2 switches. Obviously i want to be able to turn the kitchen light on and off without the yard light on and vice versa.

I cant seem to get this to work.

Wires are; Bulkhead Red - live Black - neutral

Kitchen

2 red wired into l1 1 red to com 1 earth 2 neutral

I have tried to bridge the com wires and tried all l1 and l2 combinations but just cannot seem to get the setup right can you help.

rear of socket has left l1 l2 com

right l1 l2 com Thanks in advance for the advice.

Andy

Reply to
uksolution
Loading thread data ...

By "socket" do you actually mean switch? If so then the black wires you see connected there are not likely to be neutral, more likely switched lives!

It sounds like you should be leaving it alone ....

Reply to
Andy Burns

hiya

no defo neutral as it says in the instruction of the bulkhead. 1 red live 1 black neutral.

Reply to
uksolution

On 15 Feb 2005 13:32:56 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk strung together this:

Er, no. The instructions for the bulkhead have absolutely no idea how your house is wired. Leave it alone and call an electrician in the morning.

Reply to
Lurch

Thanks so far guys but you are getting me worried now!! I have had it working, but when kitchen light turned on so does the porch light and all reference books talk about setting up a 2 way switch etc which is not what i am wanting to do.

Reply to
uksolution

Sounds like you're lucky in that you have a neutral at the switch.

Connect the neutral (black) to the black on the new fitting. Add a red to the two reds on L1 terminal of switch one and run to terminal L1 of switch two. Connect the red of the fitting to the com of switch two.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

In message , snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk writes

Yes, you had it working by wiring it in to the kitchen light circuit.

The normal way for light switches to be wired is what appears to you to be live and neutral at the switch is actually just a 'switch drop' from the feed in the ceiling somewhere (typically a ceiling rose) - basically extending the live wire down to the switch and back (so as to switch the live supply to the light).

If you do want to DIY this then the place to start is by getting hold of book that describes/shows household wring.

Reply to
chris French

Thanks Dave...brilliant, will look at it in daylight

many thanks indeed

Reply to
uksolution

Hmm. What I would do is seek professional advice. I think you don't have sufficient familiarity with lighting circuits to confidently take this on. I'm normally a "have a go" bloke, but really, no - not this time :(

More often than not there is no neutral present in a light switch in a domestic setting (but there might be sometimes).

IEE regs say that black (or blue in the new colours) must be regarded as potentially a phase (live) and cannot be assumed to be neutral.

There are at least two common approaches to routing lighting wiring and routing the neutral. That's just for single-way circuits. 2+way gets more interesting.

If you want to learn, I would look at a *better* quality DIY electrics book, buy a couple of 2 way switches and a bit of cable and mount them on an old bit of ply with a ceiling rose and a couple of junction boxes to hand. Add a torch bulb and a matching few-volt battery and try some practical work like that, trying out different configurations as shown in the book.

Armed with that background knowledge, you could examine the wiring in your house to see how it works.

Then read a guide to the IEE wiring regs and the regs themselves.

Seriously, I can't advise you to "practise" on a live job with too many of the basics missing. It's not just about getting the connections right, there are a fair few other ways of doing something potentially dangerous through simple oversight.

Sorry. Not being "elitist" (I am not professional) but some practise in a safe environment and a good bit more reading would be very worthwhile.

Tim

Reply to
Tim S

wrote | no defo neutral as it says in the instruction of the bulkhead. | 1 red live 1 black neutral.

Yes, the black wire to the bulkhead is neutral, but the black wires at the switch probably aren't. They're switched lives, and in more recent work would have red sleeving to show this.

Most light switches do *not* have a neutral, just live in and switched live out. The neutrals are connected at the ceiling rose. From what you have written I surmise that (excluding your wire to the bulkhead) there is only one cable with two cores going into the lightswitch, this will be live and switched live, and you will not be able to run your light from this point.

It might be possible to run your light from a ceiling rose, using new cable to a switch, and then on to the light. It may be easier however to run the light from a fused connection unit (fused at 3A) spurred off a convenient socket.

You might want to get a decent diy book from the library or bookshop as it's often clearer to understand these things once they are drawn out.

If you are in England or Wales, Part P of the Building Regulations will apply as this work is in a kitchen -- you will have to get Building Control approval from the council if you DIY it, or use a registered contractor.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

Yup. What he said.

The instructions in your bulkhead don't relate to what your kitchen lightswitch has.

Your bulkhead needs a neutral.

Your kitchen switch doesn't have a neutral.

The black wires you see which you think are neutrals, aren't.

If they were, when you turned the switch on, you'd be connecting live directly to neutral. What do you think would happen then? (Hint: use at least one of the words "bang", "sparks", or "pop" in your answer).

Those black wires are carrying the switched live off to the lights, and should in a perfect world either be not black but red, or have a bit of red sleeving on 'em.

Your questions - and the confusion between 'socket' and 'switch' - make it clear you really haven't enough of a clue to be safe. Any suggestions we make would be irresponsible.

For the job in hand, find an electrician. For your education, go to your library and sit down with a d-i-y manual (the Collins has good clear diagrams), and cotton on to some basic electrical concepts.

If it makes your head hurt - make friends with your local electricians. If it starts to make sense - knock up some trial circuits, preferably with 12V bulbs and a lighting transformer first.

Until you have grounds to be reasonably sure you know what you're doing, don't faff with electrics: you can't immediately see or smell or feel the difference between a working setup and a death waiting to happen.

May you live to a ripe old age!

Reply to
Stefek Zaba

Put simply, this thread has left me preying for your (and your families) safety, and I'm not even religious !...

Sorry but it is very obvious that you don't have even the basic knowledge to change a light switch, not a socket (that is something you push a plug into), let alone wire a new circuit.

Please take the advise of most who have replied, get a electrician in, not only to wire up your new outside light but also check any wiring jobs that you have already tried your hand at. :~(

Reply to
:::Jerry::::

OH, I dunno..by and large the iterative method often pays off.

Besides, that's what most sparkies do..:-)

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Please take a step away. Put down your tools and call an electrician.

Wiring up lights is not a case of stuffing different cables into the holes until it works.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

socket

families)

knowledge to

lol, I half agree. But I think there may be a preferable solution for our OP.

  1. Put everything back as you found it.
  2. Put a mains plug on your outdoor light, run it on that until you know what youre doing. Check youve connected earth correctly at each end, as is important.
  3. Talk to use here to find out how lighting is wired up, and find out what you need to know.
  4. ONLY THEN install it to the switch.

NT

PS yes, pros do just stick the wires here and there at times until they hit the right ones, but to do this you MUST be able to diffrentiate between earth and earth used as live, otherwise youre putting lives at risk.

NT

Reply to
bigcat

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.