Replacing combi boiler (like-for like-labour) cost?

[JoeJoe]

We have finally had enough of our Saunier Duval combi boiler which has given us nothing but trouble. The expansion vessel, conveniently located at the back of the boiler, requiring for it to be removed from the wall first, now need replacing. It is simply not economical, so we are looking for a new one.

Was recommended a Worchester Greenstar 34CDi Classic - 18 radiators + 1 x very frequently used shower all running from it.

Was quoted ~£600 for a like-for-like replacement - well, almost. As the old one is not condensing, and there is no obvious was to connect the new one to a drain, they will have to dig a small soak pit (I think he used a different term) under one of the patio slabs immediately outside. Boiler will be supplied at cost.

What does the panel think?

- Choice of boiler (WB are currently offering 5 year parts& labour warranty)

- is this a fair cost for a replacement?

- Is the solution for the drain acceptable?

Any advice will be much appreciated.

[mogga]

Is that labour only?

that boiler is more than that.

[Lobster]

AFAIK the usual way to fix that problem is to ignore the knackered vessel and just fit a second one, externally somewhere actually accessible?

David

[JoeJoe]

Sorry, forgot to mention - it is labour only (VAT on top I believe - he'll get me a written quite in the next couple of days).

[Phil]

Indeed. Not a supplier recommendation, but one of these plumbed somewhere on the rad circuit would fix it:

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[JoeJoe]

I know - but this is not the only problem:

it has also leaked from 3 different places during that time, and the pressure relieve valve had to be replaced. Fan also had to be replaced.

The pressure of the heating system has always been a problem. I must have topped up the system 100's of times since the boiler was fitted. We tried to re-presurise the vessel several times. It would hold for a while then usually start to leak from somewhere new... So I am not sure if the reason for the drop is actually the vessel or the leaks...

Also, the boiler occasionally fails to start on demand for hot water (lovely in the winter when you stand in the shower upstairs). I probably pressed the Reset button 10-15 time in the last 6 years...

I know it may sound like an overkill to replace it, but we have simply had enough. We tend to laugh when we see people have their boilers fitted in a "never to be seen again" location in the garage or the loft. Not a week has gone by over the last 6 years that we haven't checked it for pressure, leaks, etc...

At least 6 different engineers have looked at it during that time - all agreed on one thing... Possibly the reason they no longer operate in the UK? Very difficult to find local engineers to look at it as well. National Company that still handles servicing etc charges a flat fee of £260 (inc labour+parts, but no heat exchanger or expansion vessel).

It is -5c outside, we have your children, and we simply cannot be bothered any more worrying whether we are going to have hot water and/heating in the house.

Rant over (thanks for listening)...

[stuart noble]

Mine was half that cost with a bit of pipe bending thrown in. Didn't flush the system and was gone by lunchtime. SE London. I did A LOT of shopping around to get that price (half what the same guy originally quoted). Bunch of friggin crooks

[mogga]

Ours is a heatline and has started doing the hot then cold then hot water thing again. It is solveable but will probably need doing again in however long.

[John Rumm]

To be fair, it sounds like you asked for a crap job and got one, and paid a fair price for it.

A like for like swap (if done properly) is still a fair amount of work. Thoroughly flushing the system to BS7593 is a requirement for retaining your guarantee on most boilers, and is also important since modern HE's are far more susceptible to either blockage or erosion due to particulate contamination in the primary circuit. Properly flushing a system will take in excess of half a day - especially one with 18 rads

Digging a soak away and connecting that up correctly is also not a cost free job. So IMHO, the quote of £600 for labour sounded quite reasonable.

[John Rumm]

Not too shabby... possibly not as good as they once were, but acceptable.

I think so - if it includes a proper flush of the existing system.

Yup, so long as its large enough to cope with the volume, and the piping to it is done in adequate sizes of pipe (i.e. no outside runs in 21mm PVC)

From your other comments, it sounds like you may have leaks in your primary system. You really need to get that tested, and those fixed before (or during) the install of the new boiler. If you get into a situation of needing frequent top ups, then you are going to promote masses of corrosion in the system (since you keep adding fresh oxygenated water) which in turn could dramatically shorten the life of the new boiler. So in this situation, you would also benefit from a decent magnetic and cyclonic filter on the return to capture any particulates that manages to escape the flushing process. Something like the Fernox TF1 seems like a nice design (and better than the Magnatec IMO).

[stuart noble]

I was banking on the power flush being a total waste of time which, in retrospect, it would have been.

[John Rumm]

Why "in retrospect"?

[JoeJoe]

My thoughts too. The guy came across as very good (and not just because he was the only one out of the 7 that I'd phoned who actually bothered to return my call...)..

[JoeJoe]

Thanks, I'll make sure I mentioned this when he comes back.

Upstairs leak we should have noticed after 6 years I would have thought. Downstairs is a big problem. Around 1/3 of the floorspace is hidden from view (floating floor with a clearance of ~10cm), and solid wooden floor / tiles above - pipes go under the floor...

I very carefully checked the other 2/3 with the system on and off, but apart from ripping the tiles/wooden floor I really don't see how to go about verifying the other 1/3.

[mogga]

A piece of tissue tied around the legs of the radiators ... it'll get wet if there's a leak.

[JoeJoe]

Checked that - nothing. My worry are the pipes that I cannot see - there are some joins/branches hidden under the floor.

[stuart noble]

The boiler was replaced some years ago and doesn't appear to have suffered from the lack of power flushing. So in this instance it would have been a waste of money

[Lobster]

My neighbour was recently boilerless for a week immediately after having a new one fitted; had no end of problems with it apparently. The system wasn't flushed out when it was replaced - plumber said it wasn't necessary and fitted some sort of magnetic gizmo which would (haha) sort anything out. I know the CH pump blew up having been bunged up with debris, amongst other things.

David

[John Rumm]

Stick a pressure gauge on it somewhere (a rad bleed valve for example) stick a couple of bar into the rad circuit and then shut it off. If it loses pressure over a few hours, but you can't see where, then find a place to split the system in half (i.e. cut some pipes and temporarily cap them). The repeat the test. You have now eliminated half the system, and can carry on narrowing it down in that way.