Renovating a house - What insurance?

[Martin Carroll]

Had a search and this doesn't seem to have been asked before. On Friday I take possession of the keys of a house I am planning to renovate (and then sell). I understand that the Bank want normal building cover as they are helping me finance the project but I need to properly understand what other liabilities I have. The house will be unoccupied for the period of the renovation and therefore the only buildings cover I can get is Property Owners liability which only covers for Fire, lightening, Earthquake and Aircraft Strike. I am still not clear whether this also covers me for any damage to neighbouring properties (people) that I might cause. I will be doing a lot of the work myself and am expecting any subbies to carry there own insurance (Do I need to confirm this with them?). However I will be getting my son's (and probably some of their friends) to help me strip the place out. Does this mean I need to go for contract works cover as well to cover me if they get injured whilst helping me? Any pointers in the right direction gratefully accepted. Cheers Martin

[usenet]

Aircraft Strike??!! That must be the most incredibly unlikely thing to insure against that I've ever heard of. Not to mention that any aircraft that happened to strike you would be most definitely liable and almost certainly able to pay for the damage (well the owners of the aircraft anyway).

[Andrew Gabriel]

Not what the owners of the World Trade Center found. Also, they only insured one of the towers against destruction at once, as it was considered most unlikely anything would destroy them both at the same time.

[Lobster]

Yebbut that sort of incident would be instantly excluded anyway, by virtue of being an Act of Terrorism or Foreign Power, or whatever the usual wording is

David

[usenet]

... ah but wasn't that "Aircraft Strike" an act of war and thus not covered anyway? Not to mention that we're talking about a house, not a very public, targettable building.

[Christian McArdle]

Not very likely, but it does happen.

Whilst the vast majority of aircraft are insured, there is, rather unbelievably, no requirement for compulsory third party insurance for aircraft.

Christian.

[Mogweed]

Not sure about your sons' mates and where they would stand if injured but in general, go to the insurance company you use for your own house at the moment. My mum died a few months back and I inherited her victorian mid-terraced house and we're renovating it with a view to renting it out.

I tried a few different insurance companies but because the property was going to be unfurnished and unoccupied for more than 90 days, no-one would touch it and they all suggested my existing insurer would be best (I didn't just go straight to them first because I wanted to see what prices were being quoted).

I rang my existing insurers (CIS) and they were more than happy to give cover. As you'll know, insurance of any kind is a minefield with long lists of things so suffice to say that it's "standard" cover, covering all "standard" things such as break-in, damage, rectifying damage to the other houses at each side, fire, etc., etc., etc., all for a "standard" price and running for the "standard" term of one year (or until we finish the work and get tenants in, which should be well under a year).

Mogweed.

[usenet]

... but the requirement isn't that the plane is insured, it's that the owner has enough money to pay your claim. It's his/her problem if he's not insured. In general most people who own/fly planes will have a reasonable amount of money I would have thought, unless they've spent it all on buying the place of course.

[Christian McArdle]

No. I owned part of a plane for a while and there's no way I (or my estate) would have been able to afford to rebuild a demolished house, let alone pay a million for each dead person. The share didn't cost the earth, either, about 1000 quid for a 1/16. Obviously it was insured, but there was no legal requirement to do so.

Christian.

[usenet]

But wouldn't any claim have been against the syndicate who owned the plane, thus it would be your total assets one could claim against, not just an individual's.

[Lobster]

Surely it would be more likely to be against the individual pilot who had the misfortune to prang the plane; but having said that if it were to demolish a building full of investment bankers or whatever, even a

1/16 share of the massive ensuing claim would be more than enough to totally clean out the vast majority of individuals I would have thought.

Would love to know the answer to the OPs original question, BTW!!

David

[Jonathan Pearson]

some here, when we renovated the CIS were more than happy to continue cover under the standard policy. Jon

[Christian McArdle]

I believe it is a grey area and might depend on the circumstances of the claim.

If it does go to the syndicate, it is likely to be joint and several, i.e. they can pursue the total claim against the richest and most available member.

Christian.

[Andy Mckenzie]

Not going to help you there, but keeping with aircraft - all aircraft now have to have 3rd party liability insurance (new EU regulation) - its costs are dependent on weight and maximum speed (mv2!) so that some big old aircraft like the Sally-B B17 may well ed up grounded.

But, if I crash into you are maybe able to claim against me, because the Air Navigation Order allows recovery of damage without you having to prove negligence, but you are very unlikely to be able to mount a claim against my fellow syndicate members. You would have to prove negligence on the part of my co-owners to recover money against them, and although many people worry about this, as far as I am aware no claim against co-owners has stood without a proof of negligence.

I am not sure that the same claim without proving negligence rule applies to other accidents, I am sure I read that if your neigbours tree falls down and damages your house, its your problem (again unless you can prove negligence).

Andy M

[Christian McArdle]

Ah. Things have moved on in the last couple of years. About time too. You can be sure that the same people who didn't bother were the same people with dodgy enough risk assessing ability to actually do the crashing.

Christian.

[Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)]

Have a wander around an airfield. See the rusty old wrecks that they drive? See the tatty clothes and dog eared maps? That's the reality of PPL flying. :-)

Interestingly enough, one of the local flying schools doesn't have hull insurance and prohibits flying in all but the best conditions.

[usenet]

No longer true where animals are concerned I'm afraid, I'm not sure about other things. A fairly recent case against a horse owner has set a precedent (and increased horse insurance premiums considerably).

The horses escaped and caused an accident (a car accident I think), there was no need to show negligence on the part of of the horse owner, he was liable simply because they were his horses.

[Lobster]

But is that just buildings insurance? Does that normally indemnify against death or injury of anybody employed in the house by the policy holder, be they casual workers like his son's mates, or 'proper' contractors? (The OP assumes subbies will have their own insurance; but even if they do, presumably they'd still sue the OP for damages when they get squashed by his falling chimney pot or whatever?

David

[Martin Carroll]

This is definitely not proving an easy task 8-(

Doing a google has give me plenty of people to try but it seems my requirements are a little unusual! This is a surprise as I am sure I am not the first person to do this.

There have been various problems that have precluded brokers being able to sort me out including :-

The fact that I am doing most of the work myself. The fact that I intend to sell rather than rent or live in the property. The fact that there is work to a supporting wall.

I have found one very comprehensive quote here

However the cost is £615, this covers a period of 24 months but there is no rebate for early cancellation.

I have had 2-3 other quotes at around the £315-£400 mark (and pro-rata rebate for less than a years cover), but this is just for the FLEA cover with (I think) 1 adding property owners liability which should cover me for personal liability to subbies and friends/family. However I am not convinced that FLEA cover is comprehensive enough for the banks purposes.

I need to get this in place by next Monday so I will press on with the googling and phoning around.

Cheers

Martin

[Rick]

Martin

Can I recommend that you look for cover for hire equipment, especially large machines if you intend to use any. This will save you a bomb at the hire shop.

Rick