Removing Underfloor: how difficult?

[Jennifer]

How difficult is it to remove a wooden underfloor? Can able-bodied but inexperienced people do it? Do you have to be strong or have special tools? How long does it take to do the easy parts (e.g. how long would about 37 sq meters take) and what do you have to watch out for /be careful about when you do it?

My boyfriend and I just purchased our first home. It's a first floor apartment built in 1930. (The house is in Holland btw, but my Dutch isn't fluent enough to ask for advice on the Dutch groups so I thought I'd try uk groups? I'm American myself but I thought the UK houses might be more similar)

The original underfloor is just the boards nailed on top of beams over sand and ventilation areas. The original owners used this as their floor, but the house feels cold, and their heating bills were very high. We are going to put in oak floors in the living and dining (about

37 sq meters) and we want insulation.

We first thought we would just put XPS plate insulation between the underfloor and the new floor (Floormate?), but the R-values you get are measly compared to real batting insulation (0.15 compared to 3.25 for an inch, plus we would have to adjust several doors).

The crawl space is only about 20 cm high....so we can't feed insualtion under (I've read the posts too on this group and many people seem to say removing the floor is just easier then trying to feed it under)

So we are now considering removing the underfloor, putting in batting insulation on rails between the beams, and then putting wood plates on top, then some sort of plastic damp protection (if I udnerstand the order right), and THEN our new oak floor.

Our plan was/is to put in the floor Easter weekend. To make sure we finish with the whole project on time, I would like to get started next week. Since my boyfriend works in another city I'd be doing it on my own with (girl)friends.

MY BIG QUESTION: Is this a job that I could get started on with some girlfriends? I haven't done much diy before but I'm not afraid of the job. What tools do we need and what do we need to be aware of? How long would it take approximately?

Any advice very much appreciated!

/Jennifer

[Grunff]

Wow, that's a pretty detailed description, which makes a nice change.

My only confusion stems from your use of the word "underfloor" - this implies that your wooden boards, which you want to remove, are sitting under something else - is that the case? When you look at the floor, do you see the boards we're talking about, or some other floor covering on top (carpet, laminate etc)?

If the boards are exposed, then removal is very straightforward. You'll need a couple of crowbars, a couple of big flat blade screwdrivers and a hammer.

You may need to start by removing the skirting. This depends on whether the boards finish under the skirting or not. If you do need to remove the skirting, then be aware that this may create a bit of a mess which you'll need to tidy later (such as plaster pulled away from the walls etc.).

The first board is the hardest to remove. You'll need to use screwdrivers to get in the gaps between the boards, near the end of your chosen board, and lever it up. Once you've lifted it a bit, you'll be able to get the crowbar under there, and things will get easier from this point onwards.

As far as your insulation plan goes, it all sounds fine, can't think of anything to add to it.

[Jennifer]

Dear Grunff!

Thanks for your advice! Yes, by underfloor I mean the exposed boards: normally another floor or carpeting should go on top but the sellars had oiled it and used it as their only floor.

I'm glad it sounds like the removal isn't so hard then! I just need some tools. do have two crawlspace entryways which are more in the middle of the rooms, so maybe I could start removing from there and work outwards?

Thanks for your help!

/Jennifer

[Grunff]

Yes, that sounds like a plan. For the crowbars, try to find ones with a fairly wide angle, such as:

than ones like: wider angle ones are much more suited to floorboard removal.

Good luck.

[Christian McArdle]

Yes, we would normally call the boards the "floor" and any carpet or floating wood on top as the "floor covering".

Just watch out for partition walls that are built on the floor. In most cases for your purposes you can cut the boards on the next joist and leave those sections intact. You'll still be able to wedge insulation under.

The other thing is that you should consider installing wet underfloor heating. This is your golden opportunity, if the house has wet central heating already, or you are thinking of installing it.

I know nothing about Dutch building regulations. It is your responsibility to find out what they are and comply with them.

Christian.

[Christian McArdle]

P.S. If you choose a thick oak, you can lay it right on top of the joists. No need for chipboard or pine floorboards underneath. This would be particularly effective if you do decide to have underfloor heating, as it provides less insulation between pipe and foot.

Christian.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Others have said most of what needs saying. I'll just say one thing..if you can affored it consider either high desnity polystyrene or best of all polyisocyanurate board - up to 70mm or so - wedged between the boards rather than batting. This has best insulating properties of anything. Its is also coated both sides with a folil vapour barrier.

In practice you cut it with a saw (wear gloves and a mask) and wedge int between the joists, and tape over the whole lot - beams/insulation - with foil tape.

This totally stops draughts and moisture ingress.

I wouldn't go for underfloor heating unless you totally remove the floor and put in a solid screed. A bit more than an Easter weekend tho.

You can lay decent flooring right over the joists and insulation.

Oh..and for a perfect finish, before you lay the new floor, invest in a LONG spirit level and get some thin plywood and us it to build up any joists that have sagged so that you get a dead level and flat surface.

[xaftor]

You guys cannot be serious - can you?

Jennifer: Stay away from this, get yourself a dutchman to do it for you. The tongues and grooves on the first board alone will take you half a day and you haven't got an electricians chisel or a buzzer to cut through them. Then there's all that splitting timber; The rusty nails; The splinters; Heaving all the timber (lumber) downstairs; Heaving all the timber (lumber) upstairs; The s''t; You'll fall through the ceiling beneath; There'll be cables all over the place; Where are you going to stand when you've removed the floor - Olga Korbut are you?

Come on guys. These are Women, you know, pretty little things that wear knickers and make the tea. Sorry gotta go now, the wife's calling.

Xav :)

[Jennifer]

Hi!

Just an update. I had someone knowledgable look at the floor from the crawlspace entrance and there are a few things that we have to watch out for, and just as a tip for others:

• there are built in cabinets, and these are actually resting on the underfloor. We've decided to leave the underfloor in those parts, and basically remove the middle, fit insulation underneath and then after replacing several planks install the new floor ontop again.

• we also have two fireplaces. These are also partially supported by the underfloor. We'll do the same thing there.

So new advice: first check to see what is being supported by the underfloor and then you'll have to either resupport or remove "around" the items.

Thanks for everyone's advice! I'll be starting next week!

/Jennifer

[meow2222]

if you take a bit of care not to bust up the wood boards you can reuse them, assuming theyre in ok condition. Any boards with a bad surface can be turned over.

NT