Recommendations for new water softener please

Looks like my 25yo Permutit has gone the way of all things. This used 25kg bags of granulated salt at about 1/month. Any recommendations for a replacement?

3 bedroom house. All services within house fed from softener. 2 adults, sometimes gusts up to 4. Granulated salt is ok for me but I'm not up to date with modern tech. in this dept.

Thanks

Reply to
Nick
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I live in a hard water area and have never seen one of these things, nor heard about anyone ever using one, what is the point? - when I've been to other parts of the UK where soft water is the norm I've hated it, it leaves you feeling soapy even after 2 hours rinsing and it tastes revolting

Reply to
Phil L

Well, thank you indeed for your recommendation!

Reply to
Nick

Don't mention it! And you didn't answer my question, - what's the point of them?

Reply to
Phil L

I get same usage with a more up to date one. Its salt tablets these days.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I have a metered one manufactured by Kinetico (about 20 yrs old now, but current design is similar). There are other makes having similar operation. These measure the amount of water used and regenerate when the resin is exhausted rather than on a timer whether needed or not. This particular one has two resin tanks and switches over so it means that it is always on line. The size can be physically smaller as a result. Tablets are used at the rate of a bag every 3-4 weeks.

Reply to
Andy Hall

You should get out more.

There is a saving in the effect of scale in hot water systems, both capital replacement cost and efficiency.

There is a reduction in use of detergents and shampoos.

That's a matter of personal taste. You are not intended to drink the water. Personally, I don't like any tap water, soft, hard or otherwise.

Reply to
Andy Hall

I have used a softener for 25 years, the comfort factor is a big plus, the lack of need to clean the showerhead, no corrosion in the washing machines, easy clean bath, massive reduction in soap use etc. etc. I wouldn't be without one.

My first was a Permo, which eventually needed a refill of the resin stuff, I replaced it with a new permutit which was very cheap at an agricultural auction, that is now about 10 years old, uses about a bag a month, couple of faults in that time, not dear to diy fix.

The permo was a superior unit for operation and reliability, dearer on bits though.

mrcheerful

Reply to
mrcheerful

Will do, I'm going out tommorow night.

Scale? - I've weighed in hundreds of copper cylinders, some fifty years old and I don't think there's been more than a few mm of scale in any of them..

Is the water not drinkable after it's been treated with one of these? - what you save on Surf it costs you double for Malvern Spring?

Reply to
Phil L

I've seen somewhat different

It's quite potable. Generally, however, the kitchen cold tap is arranged to be upstream. Occasionally one reads scare stories about the level of sodium in softened water (calcium and magnesium carbonates are replaced by sodium carbonate) but the amount involved is less than in a slice of bread.

I don't buy either product. I prefer bottled water to tap water regardless of the tap water.

Reply to
Andy Hall

I took out a three year old 900x450 indirect cylinder and there must have been a good half bucket of scale in there!

They normally suggest not treating the kitchen tap (ion exchange softened water also has slightly raised sodium levels).

Reply to
John Rumm

Hi

We've had a Harvey Mini-Max for about seven years now and it has been trouble free.

It's a dual cylinder unit- completely mechanical (no electricity supply needed). One side regenerates whilst the other side is in use so there is never any interruption to the softened water.

It doesn't seem to have a particularly adverse effect on the flow rate either.

It takes block salt (2 x 4KG lumps) and these last approx 4 weeks for our family of four with 1 x bath, 1 x shower and 2 x WC. Your old unit seemed to use much more salt than that?

Hope this helps,

Steve

Reply to
stevelup

The best types are twin cylinder metered with mechanical regeneration. These designs have significant advantages over traditional types. They never run out of soft water. They don't need timers setting up. They don't waste salt by regenerating early in order to avoid daytime regeneration. They don't require a power supply.

The best known model of this type is the Kinetico 2020c, but it can be expensive, particularly as the company has a reputation for dodgy sales tactics.

I can recommend a similar but cheaper model that I've had running for almost a year now without problems.

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's been on "special offer" indefinitely, so ignore that bit.

I didn't bother with any of the fitting kits. I plumbed it in with flowed bent copper pipe for maximum flow rate, as my house is mains pressure throughout (but doesn't have particularly good pressure).

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

One of my neighbours had his hot water cylinder replaced last year. It's a new house, so the cylinder was less than 10 years old. It took two of them to pick it up.

Reply to
Huge

The water certainly is drinkable, though its convention to leave the kitchen tap un softened.

It tastes a bit of sodium carbonate, but so does most bottled water.

The main advantages are loss of scale on all plumbing - taps and toilets being the worst for scaling IME. The water is not as slippery and soapy as true soft water...mine leaves a little calcium in.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Are you sure you are in a hard water area? Whereabouts do you live?

You are legally required to have a non-softened drinking water tap. Also, the softened water is actually potable (provided it isn't then stored in a tank). The increase in sodium is only slight, provided there is no malfunction, and doesn't affect the taste unduly. Any difference in taste is more often due to an increase in temperature compared with the direct mains. You are recommended not to drink it if you are on a low sodium diet, or are under the age of 12 months.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

I've repaced two cylinders here over the last 15 years. To lift either of them (after pumping them dry) required the use of a lever to get them off the floor and two people to carry them downstairs. Even then it was a close run thing if they could carry the heavyweight monster.

Installing replacements is a doddle, they weigh bugger all.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Concur:

'EMWC' is a re-badger of a UK designed and manufactured twin cylinder water softener. The devices seem _similar_ to the Kinetico model but are only available in one colour (beige) and with connections only on the left (when facing) rather than the switchable left/right of Kinetico. After much prevarication and reading , and re-reading, of UK-DIY Faqs, I purchased this model off emwc in 'special offer' too. I discovered later that my house was experiencing water at 7.5 Bar pressure - when measured at

11:00 ( a Water Softener man said that it _might_ have doubled at night time when folks weren't consuming water } so I've installed a PRV set at 4 Bar. Consumption of salt (blocks) seems to average one-block/per adult/per month ( -ish). The cost of salt is definitely off-set by the reduction in detergent (bath stuff, shampoo, soap, washing-up liquid and fabric-softener ) and the general level of cleanliness of sinks, toilet pans, worksurfaces etc.
Reply to
Brian Sharrock

Yes, I could have used right hand connections. Not too worried about the colour, though, it fits inside a drawerline kitchen cupboard.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

Hi

The internals of that unit are identical to my Harvey Minimax - the only difference being the outer casing and the fact that my unit takes block salt rather than tablets.

They are very good machines.

Regards,

Steve

Reply to
stevelup

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