Wind turbines (again ...)

[Arfa Daily]

Looking at the one that caught fire and fell down the other day, it occurred to me that these things are massive at 200 ft tall. and mechanically complex, yet the alternators in them only produce a maximum of less than 2.5 MW - enough to drive 1000 fan heaters - on a good day of perfect wind. Compare that to a typical power station alternator at 300+ MW, or more than

100 times the capacity. I then started to think about the energy budget to build 100 wind turbines, transport them to site, erect them, and maintain them, compared to building a single steam-driven power station alternator, and got to wondering just how much advantage, if any, the wind farms have in this regard. If you drive the power station with carbon-clean fuel such as nuclear, then the 'green' case for covering the country in windmills, seems pretty thin to me. Unless, of course, I'm missing something, which *is* entirely possible ... d:-)

Arfa

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , Arfa Daily escribió:

Not much. You also have to factor in the cost of the infrastructure needed to connect wind farms to the grid, since by their very nature, they're sited in locations well away from the grid.

[Apellation Controlee]

TNP mentioned the non-trivial cost of maintenance/downtime a week or two back, so a fair amount of redundancy in generating capacity would need to be factored in.

[Syke]

Someone on Question Time last night said, in support of wind-farms, that when their useful life is over they can be dismantled in a matter of weeks, conveniently omitting to mention the many tons of concrete used in the bases and the miles of access roads; you can be damn sure these won't be removed.

Syke

[Java Jive]

[Tim Streater]

Because the farmer would be returning the field to crops, f'rinstance.

[whisky-dave]

If it's a road it'll need maintaining surely and you can;t have pot holes i= n a road that's used for transporting turbines which are quite large and he= avy but I've little idea on what sort of trucks would be required to build = such a site or what equipemtn would be needed to remove the windmills/turbi= ne and transport that and what sort of road required neeted I assume more t= han a dirt track.

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[Dave Liquorice]

So you can plough the field to grow crops? abd enough having to avoid the massive concrete foundation block that will no doubt also be left behind.

As other industries have to return sites to "green field" level so should the wind power industry.

[John Williamson]

Because after you remove what it's been used to access, it's just a blot on the landscape, the area of which could be used to grow stuff.

Admittedly, it's less of a blot on the landscape than a wind farm, but still...

[John Williamson]

road that's used for transporting turbines which are quite large and heavy but I've little idea on what sort of trucks would be required to build such a site or what equipemtn would be needed to remove the windmills/turbine and transport that and what sort of road required neeted I assume more than a dirt track.

If it's only for use while the windfarm is being built, then they'd normally just use a temporary steel track if the ground is smooth enough. The next stage up is a hardcore road, which will only last a year or two. the trucks they use are just longer than normal, normal weight articulated lorries as the individual components aren't very heavy, and the cranes just use their normal steadies, laid on some sort of weight distribution system such as stacked timbers.

Routine maintenance can be done using a Land Rover or similar. The heavy stuff is once a year at most.

[The Natural Philosopher]

BUT THATS A GAS GUZZLING 4x4 !!!

[John Williamson]

[whisky-dave]

es in a road that's used for transporting turbines which are quite large an= d heavy but I've little idea on what sort of trucks would be required to bu= ild such a site or what equipemtn would be needed to remove the windmills/t= urbine and transport that and what sort of road required neeted I assume mo= re than a dirt track.

Pity they cant; use those land rovers to repair the 100os of pot holes thro= ughout london streets. I know how it can be done but how pays the local tax= payer or the energy companies.

[Adam Aglionby]

Problem with nuclear is it isn`t very clean really:

capture for coal appears to be a buzz phrase rather than an actual working technology.

Energy budget for making any of these `renewable` generators is always questionable, solar panel manufacture being another highly questionable system.

As are `green` CFL lamps, majority of those made consume more energy in manufacture than they will save in use.

Seems little interest in `old fashioned` ideas like insulation, combined heat and power and neighbourhood heating systems.

Battersea Power Station had flue washers on the chimneys and waste heat was pumped around local housing , from a 1920`s design , some ideas are bound to coime back around.

Cheers Adam

[Nightjar]

reprocess the fuel. There are recycling techniques that can reduce the waste from 95%, mostly high level, waste with half lives in the thousands of years to around 5% low level waste with a half life of about 500 years.

Colin Bignell

[S Viemeister]

I know of a small community wind farm (only 3 turbines) which is to be built in a remote area totally unsuitable for anything else. It was peatland, but the peat was completely stripped off during WWII. Small groups of turbines in carefully-sited out-of-the-way areas, can be useful, but are not The Answer. No _one_ source of energy can be The Answer.

[The Natural Philosopher]

+1

What is needed is a joined up proper nuclear policy. BUT every mans hand is against it. IT directly competes with coal and renewables and even gas could be reduced by nuclear development

Whereas renewables mean more coal and more gas!

[The Natural Philosopher]

Then there is no answer, because ultimately there is only one source of energy. Nuclear reactions.

[Brian Gaff]

No you are not missing anything. Its just that the market is skewed as it appears wind turbines are favoured as the least bad way to make power. However, I foresee a huge bill on servicing them all in their lives.

Brian

[newshound]

You *could* make a "green" landy with a couple of solar panels on the roof. Of course it wouldn't go very fast, and only when the sun was shining. But all the energy would be free, so that's all right then.....