Re: Plug in solar panels - announced

Yes, is there really no requirement for a permanent ground connection?

You can top up the batteries at cheaper (70%ish) electricity rates.

But overall, agreed, if money is your sole criterion you probably wouldn't adopt solar/storage - particularly if you have to build in the risks you point out. A fire that burns down your home isn't exactly selling it.

A good many people have solar for the environmental benefits. And for a good many that is not even a remote concern - so will be unlikely to adopt until it becomes either obligatory or it gives a pretty decent and safe return.

Yes, we know. And as has been pointed out, many things have changed since. So at the very least you might want to update the figures on your spreadsheet.

I've been looking at the EV tariffs and it is a Real Thing. And while it's quite deeply buried in the app, topping up the battery using mains electricity is easy enough - in the sense that I've done it to check it works. Off peak electricity is about a third of the price right now.

The issue as I see it is that these things change all the time. I'm on version

Right now ... peak 31.95p/kWh off-peak 6.5p/kWh (20% of the peak price)

As of Wednesday ... peak 27p/kWh off-peak 6.5p/kWh (24% of the peak price)

Where is is it 6.5p/kWh (for new customers)?

I remember doing that with lamps.

So Energy, I switched at exactly the right time, no longer available to new customers who pay 8.8p/kWh (32% of peak price)

My current (hah!) impression is that the payback time is constantly reducing but the calendar date that you achieve payback stays much the same.

Roughly:

For us we have never really wanted a calendar date in 2035 for payback and start earning.

We aren't sure we will still be alive/in the same house at that point so it doesn't seem a wise investment.

Then again the rise in electricity prices over the years may have made the original estimates wildly pessimistic.

I think you have to be able to give good odds that you will still be in the same house at payback time, with a good few years ahead of you to start getting a return on investment.

Cheers

Dave R

If it's unplugged then surely it's just like any other bit of metal tat that's lying around the outside of your property? It's not connected in any way to the electricity system at that point.

Theo

The cost of the panels was not the issue. The cost and lifespan of the batteries was,

As has the cost of batteries

Exactly. Even more is how some people focus on one thing in order to calculate how smart they are whilst completely missing the holistic picture

Te Reneavle fantasy in a nutshell

Suns free, panels are cheap therefore whole solution must be cheap

Yawn

You really think there are environmental benefits?

Hence renewable obligations and massive subsidies.

Designed to sell s*it (German) product, not save the environment

Does that payback include lost interest on the capital used and the loss of the capital itself?

Cost of LiFePO4 has gone down. Currently ~£150 per 100Ah (12V) They also have the advantage of a BMS so can't be discharged below 10% and can generally handle 3,000 cycles.

In contrast Lead Acid batteries degrade very quickly if discharged below

In reality, assuming you are looking after your batteries a 100 LiFePO4 is equivalent to a 200Ah lead acid.

My solar panels were installed in 2011 and payback occurred at 7 years as predicted by the salesman. I bought them as an investment. They costed £11,500 and I've received £31,000 to date. I haven't worked out how much I've saved in reduced electricity import.

Did the salesman factor in the lost interest on £11500 over 7 years? That would be the order of £4000. While it doesn’t take the shine off the exercise, it should be taken into account.

If the panels are still in sunlight, are there not stil volts on that side of the inverter and cables on the balcony ?

I don't think he did and it never crossed my mind.

I doubt it. That is where the extra years come in. If the yield on investment is similar to investment and savings accounts then the financial case is doubtful.

Cheers

Dave R