I put my radiaors on the other day for the first time this year.
Now the problem is that they stay hot all the time.
Looking at the web i think that i have a fully pumped system?
I have a big tank and a smaller expanaion tank in the loft.
My switch is a Switchmaster SM905. It does once or twice on hot water and once or twice on CH.
For the last couple of days the CH switch has been in the off position and the Hot water on continuois (as all summer) yet radiators are still on.
I think my pump is staying on all the time but will it go on for the hot water anyway? .
When i put a long metal rod to the pump from my ear, the sound remains the same when i switch both switches from continuous to off ??. (noisy).
The last time my heating was on was when i had to get some chap out to fix it a few months ago as it just would not light (Baxi) . He said it was clogged up. It did work ok after that.
As a further test i have just put CH continuous. Hot water on off and then turned room thermostat (downstairs ) on & off. This DID start and stop the Baxi??.
Hi A bit more info I have just took another look and noticed a Drayton MID Position actuator fitted th the valves ?? it has a small pushable lever on the side of it. Which could have been pushed over the last few months?.
Your problem is probably in this area. The 3-port mid-position valve directs hot water pumped from the boiler either to the hot water circuit (coil inside the hot water cylinder) or to the heating circuit (radiators) or to both at the same time - when in its mid position.
The valve in in two parts - the wet part and the electrical part. The wet part is a sort of T-piece with a paddle inside which directs the flow. there is a spindle sticking out of the top which, when rotated, moves the paddle to one of 3 positions (HW, CH or Both). The electrical part (actuator) is bolted to the top of the valve, and rotates the spindle to the appropriate position depending on the programmer and room/tank stat status. [The lever simply moves the valve to its mid position for system testing].
Most actuators have a spring return to the HW water position, and a motor to turn the valve - against the spring - to the other positions. When it arrives at either of the other two positions, microswitches operate in order to ensure that the boiler and pump are turned on when needed.
Several things can go wrong with these valves, which may possibly explain your symptoms. One is that the actuator simply gets confused. The cure for this - and perhaps the first thing to try - is to remove *all* power from the system - by turning it off at the FCU which feeds the whole heating system - not just at the programmer. Allow the valve's spring return to move it back to its "home" position, and then turn it on and try again. This can sometimes work.
If this doesn't work, remove the actuator from the valve ** and make sure that the spindle is free to rotate - if not with your finger and thumb, it should move with only *light* pressure from a pair of pliers. [If it hasn't been exercised for a while, it could have stuck in the mid-position. Moving it to and fro should free it]
** most actuators can be removed from the valve without any water spillage - but just a few are integral with the valve, and can't. Proceed with caution until you are sure which sort you have got!
If the spindle moves freely, and the heating/hot water *still* don't behave themselves, the actuator - particularly the mircroswitches inside could be shot.
Anyway, check the 2 things described above, and come back for further advice if needed.
The spindle moves freely with finger & thumb. Only moves 45 deg or so (normal i presume)
After i took the actuator off I lay it on the floor as i played with the Room Thermostat and the programmer.
I could see the lever on the side of it moving from W to M to H (does not seem to go all the way to H ! ( I would asume H is to give radiators heat, of which i have too much anyway) as I played around. This would suggest that it is working so I have put it back on and now have turned the power back on.
I hope that it was just confused or the spindle did just need some assistance to free up.
I think i felt a small resistance but I cannot be sure.
I has just put the heating on in my last post.
I then let the Rads heat up to max. I then turned the room thermostat off 2 hrs ago (leaving the programmer set to CH Continuous, My next step was to set this to off also, had the room stat not stopped the hot rads).
Now my rads are cool and FCU (fused spare ? ) is on . Programmer is set to HW cont, CH cont.
One point though,, my bathroom rad is still warm (only warm and not at all the full normal temp). I think I have always had this with the bathroom rad though.
Thank you so much for your indepth reply. you have solved my problem (touch wood).
Are you saying that the bathroom rad is warm when the CH is off, and all other rads are cold?
Does the bathroom rad get warm in the summer when the HW is on but the CH is off? If so, it is possible that that it is connected into the HW circuit rather than the CH circuit (or even possibily connected *before * the mid-position valve so that it gets hot to warm the towels whenever the boiler the running - whether for HW or CH or both. If you have had the HW on after you turned the CH off and if this rad got warm as a result, this could be a possible explanation.
Yes it is always a bit warmer, sometimes warmer than others (as in on and not just room temp of bath room when hot bath or shower has heated room temp).
Well the little I have learnt since the weekend tells me that the mid position valve is fitted 3 foot from the boiler and there are two Ts off before this, they are both going to exp tank , one 15mm and one 22 mm. (these measurements are from material on the web and my understanding of my system!).
The pipes that go into the tank (cylinder) (hw circuit) ! from the boiler go straight into it, the cylinder and boiler are only 2 feet apart.
The rad in the Bathroom is the nearest Rad physically. and has thin pipes into floor (10 mm ?) but there are no pipes of this size in the vicinity of valve,boiler or cylinder.
As a test I just checked rad in bathroom which was cold. I the turned hot tap on for 2 mins to start boiler and pump (ch off, hw continuous on programmer and room thermostat in living room off, all other rads cold)
and the pipe going into rad got piping hot though the rad will just get warm and stay that way.
could the mid valve be open a touch ? enough to push a touch of hot water to this rad but not enough to get it piping hot or spread to other rads??
It's more likely that you've got reverse circulation - or single pipe circulation up the return pipe. When this happens, how hot is the CH outlet pipe from the 3-port valve? [I would expect it to be warm for a foot or so, purely by conduction - but to be cold beyond that unless the valve *does* have an internal leak.
If you want to investigate further, you may need to take up one or two floorboards to see exactly where the pipes go!
What I would expect is the following: Flow pipe (22 or 28mm) coming from boiler. Connections for expansion and fill pipes, then the pump, then the inlet to the 3-port valve.
One outlet from the 3-port valve (22mm) goes to the top of the heating coil in the hot water cylinder.
The other 22mm outlet feeds the radiators, with individual radiator feed pipes tee'd off it. [It may also split into 2 or more branches, depending on the layout of your house]
The returns from the radiators should also all be combined into a single (probably 22mm) pipe which, in turn, joins with the return from the coil in the hot water cylinder before returning to the boiler. There may be a 'balancing' gate valve in the return from the hot water coil before it combines with the CH return.
What you should *not* have, is any radiator returns connected into the boiler return pipe *after* the point where the HW return joins it.
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