Pseudo green

There seems to be a lot of promotion at the moment of socalled green techs that have little or no hope of meeting expectations. At the same time, technologies that actually do pay their way are not even mentioned in government publications.
Perhaps I'm being a bit cynical, or perhaps not cynical enough... lets spin this one and just see what happens. Lets say the govt wants to back the interests of big businesses, including power generators. To achieve this one needs to discredit green tech in the public eye. How better to do that than to promote assorted dead ducks and let the critics rip into them all over the country. This achieves 3 political objectives in one go: 1. power companies will support and vote for you 2. consumers will too, as they think youre being green and trying your best to promote green tech 3. the almost credible face of green techs today will be knocked back by several years, thus mass adoption of money saving home gen techs wil not occur. This is 'good' because if it did occur, massive tax income losses would follow, and job losses in generation and distribution. Both of these would make govt fiscal policy look a lot less succesful.
Windmills on houses are now being promoted, despite being one of the deadest ducks we've seen yet. Solar PV has long been hyped, despite never coming close to payoff, while solarthermal space heating is consistently avoided. etc.
NT
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There seems to be a lot of promotion at the moment of socalled green techs that have little or no hope of meeting expectations. At the same time, technologies that actually do pay their way are not even mentioned in government publications.
Perhaps I'm being a bit cynical, or perhaps not cynical enough... lets spin this one and just see what happens. Lets say the govt wants to back the interests of big businesses, including power generators. To achieve this one needs to discredit green tech in the public eye. How better to do that than to promote assorted dead ducks and let the critics rip into them all over the country. This achieves 3 political objectives in one go: 1. power companies will support and vote for you 2. consumers will too, as they think youre being green and trying your best to promote green tech 3. the almost credible face of green techs today will be knocked back by several years, thus mass adoption of money saving home gen techs wil not occur. This is 'good' because if it did occur, massive tax income losses would follow, and job losses in generation and distribution. Both of these would make govt fiscal policy look a lot less succesful.
Windmills on houses are now being promoted, despite being one of the deadest ducks we've seen yet. Solar PV has long been hyped, despite never coming close to payoff, while solarthermal space heating is consistently avoided. etc.
NT
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...

I think it is like ripping up cast iron railings in WW2: It wasn't any real use, but it made people feel involved.
Colin Bignell
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nightjar <nightjar@ wrote:

And Al suacepans. Useless for aircraft as quality of the alloy was wrong, but Land Rover used it to make cars afterwards.

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Sounds like a good script for Bremner, Bird and Fortune (Channel 4, 8pm, Saturday), where Fortune plays the hapless 'green' government minister trying to defend wind turbines and other pseudo green scams, and Bird plays the bemused interviewer. I really do wonder about domestic rubbish recycling. I needed a respirator the other day when the chap in front of me at the bottle bank set off in his diesel Range Rover, pumping black smoke from the exhaust, after he put a few newspapers and bottles in the bins. In my area we used to have a once weekly collection of our domestic rubbish. Then the council introduced boxes for recycling paper, cans and bottles, but that needs a separate lorry to collect these. Then the council introduced bags for garden waste, but that needs a separate lorry to collect these. My understanding is that 3 massive diesel-engined lorries are 3 times more environmentally damaging than one. They certainly make 3 times more noise. The logic of this escapes me. Is there really any net gain with recycling?
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...

The main driving force has been the lack of landfill sites to dump things into.
Colin Bignell
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nightjar wrote:

Something I've not yet figured out a sensible answer to: why dont 'they' dump rubble into the sea by the shore in a big u shape, and fill the area with mixed landfill rubbish. No landfill used up, and in time it will be more land for what is a high price land country.
NT
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snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote:

Exactly.
Make it a nature reserve.

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On 2006-10-27 09:10:27 +0100, snipped-for-privacy@care2.com said:

They have. It's called the Netherlands.
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On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:16:18 +0100 someone who may be Andy Hall

Where they are completing flood defences that were started in the aftermath of floods decades ago and are now wondering how well these defences will stand up to global warming. As a result of this wondering they have started adopting the sort of managed flooding that has also been taken up in the UK.
In the UK some harbours have been filled in or partly filled in. However, this only buys a few years and so isn't a solution.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
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Perhaps Codswallop could bury his own waste in his garden, then he wouldn't feel bad about supporting a useless system.
As for the OP , not all pv is useless even in England. We keep our caravan leisure battery topped up with a small pv panel which cost 10, it's been well worth having.
And I'll bang on about our solar water heater again: we've had no obvious sun for days, it's been close to freezing at night and we've had a lot of rain. The water in the cylinder this morning, even though water has been drawn off during those days, was 30C. That's a tankful which didn't need heating for the first 30C for me to have a bath.
There's a move to make things better, it's slow but it's working.
The first i.c.e. vehicles were noisy, smelly, thirsty and uncomfortable and seen by some asa toys for the rich. Improvements happened, they will with green technology too.
Mary>

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That's the sort of thing that gives the green movement a bad name.
You're not gaining a whole 30 degrees, nor anything like that. The water that comes from your supply (whether it's from your own well or a mains supply) is almost certainly well above zero degrees. It's most likely in the 10 to 20 degrees range I would think here in the UK.
--
Chris Green

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"Mary Fisher" wrote:

I don't know what prompted such a nasty response. I didn't write anything to offend you.
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That wasn't nasty!
Mary

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Mary Fisher wrote:

If you do the calculations on hot water usage, its frankly peanuts.
When I kill our oil fired aga in the summer, our oil consumption is frankly not measurable over the whole summer, just heating the water.
The aga itself makes it measurable, but its in winter when the heating is on that we really burn the oil.

The answer to green issues is not really technology, its lifestyle.
To use less fuel the answer is simple. Use less fuel.

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nightjar <nightjar@ wrote:

And yet the east coast is falling into the sea because of lack of material to pile into landfill.

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I think the word you missed out in front of material is 'suitable'. Domestic rubbish is not a particularly useful landfill material to stop erosion.
Colin Bignell
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nightjar wrote:

Big piles of rubble is, and thats not in short supply, and currently gets landfilled.
Now, why pile the rubble against the shore when it can be piled up 10/50/100 yards out, and the area infilled with garbage. The garbage is topped with something heavier to prevent plastic film floating about, perhaps a layer of smaller sieved rubble. Decay may reduce the garbage level, possibly permitting another round of dumping, and the decayed soil will help stick everything together. Sow seed of saltwater tolerant species and the roots lock it all together, and you have the beginning of permanent new land. In time it would become stable secure farming land. This would make it possible to build right up to what is now the edge of the land.
Instead of all those landfills costing money in land value, no land is used, and land is gained at the end.
NT
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I sugest you look out of the train windows the next time your St.Pancras to Sheffield Midland Mainline is passing through Stuartby in North Beds. You can tell where you are because of the brick kiln chimneys, the awful smell emitted therefrom and ... the *huge* holes in the ground where the brick clay used to be before it became Wimpey housing estates.
--
"Other people are not your property."
[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]
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My house 150 miles north was built of LBC "Heather" bricks.
I used to comfort myself in the thought that I could see the chimneys of the brick kilns from the M1. They seem to have gone now.
The "running out of landfill" tosh is a load of rubbish. *Huge* slag hills have been moved, landscaped, and redeveloped all over the North of England.
Landfilling of quarries and opencast mines could provide plenty of landfill, trouble is sometimes there are more lucrative options, such as creating leisure facilities such as caravan sites around an artificial lake.
The government (EU ?) doesn't let the market find it's own level, it just taxes landfill.
DG
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