Problems sharpening chisels

[Richard Sterry]

Alas, no, otherwise we wouldn't be having this 'conversation'!

I'm not in my dotage, but I did leave said school before flares came into fashion (the first time)! :-)

Rick

[Richard Sterry]

Yup - dealt with that , (see separate posting).

The problem for me is that I need to remove the skill element from this process, because basically I don't possess any. Someone who 'has the knack', could probably do a better job than I could, just using the back doorstep asa stone!

Rick

[Andy Dingley]

No, they're rubbish. On a wheel that size, you need a reasonable degree of accuracy to get anywhere. Spend around 100 on the Axminster or even the Draper version, not the ultra cheapies. The Record for 70 is a decent machine too, although it's a small wheel, so there's a lot of hollow grinding.

I do all my sharpening on hand stones, and only use the powered stuff for initial shaping from bar stock or forged. If you have the right stones it's not slow. I use waterstones, down to about 250 and mainly

1000 grit for sharpening work.

[Paul Mc Cann]

I dunno.

I've had one for years but it rarely gets used now. Its o/k for putting the initial bevel on a chisel but after that a Japanese water stone is much quicker for maintaining that edge until the main bevel needs re- doing, which in my workshop is hardly a weekly occurence.

About once a year SWMBO gets her tongue, whoops, knives, and scissors=20 sharpened

I find it slow at stock removal also.

Turning gouges and chisels are much more quickly brought to spec on the bench mounted grinder. A quick touch is all that is required and can be done while the lathe is left spinning.

I once let a Spanish itinerant knife grinder loose on a pocket knife I always carry. Big mistake. He ground the blazes out of the blade and when I got it back it was still blunt. I suppose it was too small for him as I came across him outside the door of an hotel where he was sharpening the chefs knives.

There used to be an old gentleman who went from hotel to hotel in Dublin riding a combined bicycle/knife grinder. The bicycle was setup on a stand when he had arrived and he could rotate the grinding wheel via the=20 bicycle's pedals

Paul Mc Cann

[Howard Neil]

If, when using a Tormek, you cannot get a chisel sharp enough to shave with, then it is you that is doing something wrong.

The same really applies to any method of sharpening (or to any machine). The difference is in the time taken and the skill required to achieve the required sharpness.

Where the Tormek is very good is in the range of jigs available. These jigs allow a wide range of blades to be sharpened with great accuracy (particularly planer/thicknesser blades).

[Andy Hall]

Definitely not. These are complete junk and will wreck any decent tool.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

Rubbish. Have you actually used a Tormek machine?

If you haven't been able to achieve at least as good as the scary sharp technique then you are doing something wrong.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

What's it worth not to tell her that you said that ? :-)

.andy

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[Andy Dingley]

Of course. As wet wheel machines, they're pretty good. Although their stones could be better and the price really is ridiculous.

So how does one flatten the back of a chisel using a Tormek ? I can do the bevel in a few minutes by any technique you like. It's getting the backs flat that takes the time.

[Michael Mcneil]

Don't be silly.

They use garnet paper and I am not sure what the finest grade for them is. Take that up with the salesperson.

They do a lovely job on an axe. Can't really say much about chisels and plane blades with them though. I just have a bench grinder and a stone.

[Howard Neil]

That is simplicity itself. You use the side of the wheel. Very quick and very efficient.

When the blade is sharp, you can then strop it on the leather wheel and make it even better (I have a couple of chisels that I have given a mirrored finish to).

[Andy Hall]

I'm happy with mine on both counts.

You use the side, as the makers recommend.

Then use the leather wheel to finish.

I also have the 2005 model which has a larger diameter wheel than the

1000 series...

.andy

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[Andy Dingley]

I said flat, not conical. This approach isn't good enough for a well sharpened chisel. Even a vertical axis wheel isn't especially flat, unless you true it frequently.

( OK so it's probably a bit academic, as most of my chisels are forged hollow on the back anyway.)

[Andy Dingley]

Yes. Try CSM abrasives for weird abrasives. If they don't offer it from stock, they'll make it.

Although typical "wet and dry" backing is too stiff to make a good belt, silicon carbide grit (the black stuff) makes a lot of sense on a belt grinder.

[Howard Neil]

Read what I said again. The side of the wheel is flat on a Tormek stone and runs true. Since you only flatten surfaces with the side of the wheel, there is not reason for it to become grooved. Have you really used a Tormek or are you just jumping to conclusions?

[jacob]

I always amazed at the difficulties people have with the simplest things - especially when they try and do them with a machine. You do not ever need to grind, hone or otherwise disturb the back of a chisel unless it's pitted with rust , or seriously bent (not possible with a good quality chisel). However you do need to remove the wire edge after honing. This is done by holding the chisel flat on an oilstone and moving it about a bit. It takes about 2seconds.

cheers

Jacob

[Toby]

Cheers. Must say that regular hand sharpening on a stone is the only way to go, grandfather who passed down chisels would not be impressed with all this talk of wheels and belts.

[Michael Mcneil]

It isn't and he would.

I use a stone as I have to keep my stuff sharp on site. Setting a sander up to give the edges it does is not practical.

Your grandad would have loved them. Except the carbide that is. He knew all about the problems using that stuff on wood. I rather suppose you mean his great grandfather by the way. And he too would not have used wet and dry on bare wood.

[Howard Neil]

This depends on how sharp you need the edge to be. If you are doing hand work on a very hard wood and you want the cut to be of very high quality, it helps if the edge is very sharp. If you polish both the back and the bevel, the edge will be smoother and sharper.

If you were to look at an edge that had not been polished through a microscope, you would see lots of ridges and valleys. Polishing reduces these.

If, of course, you are simply running some softwood through a thicknesser and the wood is for joinery that will never be seen, there is no need to worry too much.

[RichardS]

glass plate and abrasive paper solution, aka Scary Sharp, is probably the cheapest route to success. Starting with a suitably coarse abrasive you should be able to get the correct angle relatively quickly.

Couple of useful things under "sharpening basics & links" on Steve Knight's site:

-- Richard Sampson

email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk