I am having a new concrete sectional garage installed in the new year, and as I can't drill through the walls to get power in, whats the alternative?
I think drilling through the walls invalidates the warranty.
Thanks.
Phil S.
Drill through the floor with an SDS drill and put in SWA cable before you start......
.andy
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On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:24:06 -0000, "manoman" pondered...
alternative?
hmmm.. an excuse to buy an SDS drill... cool
I was thinking about asking the guy who came to do my base to embed a pipe of some form which went from the side of the garage closest to the house (and hence the MCU) which led to the far end where I intend having the consumer unit in the garage. This would leave me a nice route to do all the cabling when the garage was built on top.
Is this a reasonable plan?
Phil S.
If it's next to the house run 110mm underground soil pipe with gentle bends from under your house floor to the slab before it is poured. That way you can pull through cables and pipes to your hearts content in the future.
Andrew Mawson
Seems reasonable.
The other approach is to go through the air. My concrete sectional garage is fed from the adjacent building by a feed carried in a bit of (what looks like) MDPE water pipe, it just goes into the gap between the roof and the walls. It's not a long span though so might not be suitable in your case.
Yep. You definitely need one for Christmas. I would recommend Bosch, as being a good compromise between quality and price. They have them starting at < £100. I would avoid the cheap unbranded products unless you plan to use them just once or twice - most people who have tried them have been disappointed.
It would depend on the type of pipe and how it's done.
First of all, the power cable must be properly protected. Just laying something like waste pipe and running indoor type T&E cable doesn't do it. For buried services, you must use something like steel wire armoured (SWA) cable. You *could* run this through waste pipe if you wanted; however you won't be able to get it around an elbow or probably even a swept joint. Also, you can't, for regulatory reasons, run other cables such as data, telephone etc. through the same duct.
In other words you *can* use a pipe but it can be difficult and has no value.
I would run in the SWA cable in advance of the other work. You can buy it cheaply from wholesalers or on line such as TLC Direct.
Drill out a reasonable sized hole in the base where the garage will go. Dig a trench of 450mm or more between house and garage and drop a little soft sand in the bottom. Run in the SWA cable. Drop in some more soft sand and then back fill the trench to about half way with soil. Run a length of electricity service warning tape (yellow and black) and then backfll the entire trench.
At the garage end leave the hole without making good for now, and complete after the garage is erected. You want to run the cable up the wall.......
In the same trench, if you want to have other services, by all means run in a length of waste pipe while you are at it. Use solvent weld. You will be able to get phone and data cables through easily enough. It's best to pull a string through while laying to facilitate this, otherwise a piece of rag with a string attached can be sucked through with a vacuum cleaner.
.andy
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But not mains power and other services in the same one.....
.andy
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Not entirely true if you read back through the threads on SDS drills.
T&E in conduit of some sort is OK regulations wise, it's not absolutely clear how good the conduit must be though. However SWA is so cheap it's probably the easiest way to do it.
Make sure it doesn't have an elbow in it. Wouldn't fancy coaxing SWA through that!
Whilst you're there, consider if it might be possible to get an accessible earth rod incorporated somewhere without it affecting any DPM you may wish to install. It is certainly better to think of these things before the concrete mixer arrives.
Christian.
I know - that's why I said "most".
Sure, but plastic waste pipe is not really suitable.....
.andy
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Don't forget to pull some thin cord through and leave it in the pipe before you lay it, so its there ready to pull the cables.
Dave
In message , Andy Hall writes
Time to open a debate on regulation 528-01.
I coming from a situation where I have existing underground duct with T+E power, and need to run in alarm system cables as well. I NOT considering telecom or datacom cables here, as other factors come into play. But, I would suggest the most likely need is for alarm circuits to be extended to a garage. [1]
Anyway, Regulation 528-01, ref mixing band I (i.e. alarm cables) and band II (power) circuits "in the same wiring system" (read conduit / duct?), in not allowed UNLESS one of the following methods is used :-
"528-01-02 (i) every cable is insulated to the highest voltage present."
OK, I can get multicore rated to 440Vrms (Farnell Def-Stan 61-12 stuff) for my alarm circuits.
"528-01-02 (iii)... band I circuits shall be separated from the cores of the band II circuit by an earthed metal screen of equivalent current carrying capacity of ... the band II circuit"
So does the SWA on your mains cable count as said earthed screen?
(There are a couple of other options I've missed out here)
([1] You want telecom to the garage? - get DECT. You want data to your garage? either use fibre or get a life!)
Interesting question. It all depends on your interpretation of "equivalent current carrying capacity". No continuous current ratings are given for the armour, but they would surely be less than for the live conductors - hence the strict answer to your question is probably "no". However, provided that the earth fault protection arrangements for the SWA cable comply on both disconnection time and temperature rise (adiabatic equation with k = 46, see
543-01-03 & Table 54D) I would suggest that you are complying with the spirit of the regulation. If you need data for armour resistance and/or CSA, post again (or buy yourself a copy of the /commentary/).
Very good idea... I like that.
Thanks for all the input, keep it coming. I want to get ir right first time so all advice is useful at the moment. I am learning lots of anachronisms as well so I know I should use SWA.
Is it easy enough to tap into my MCU or should I leave that to a professional?
It is easy enough.
If you have a spare way in the CU, then you can fit a breaker of the appropriate size. Alternatively a separate switch unit incorporating a breaker can be used. In this case, the normal way is to cut into the tails from the meter and to install a large terminal block (aka Henley block) and to run additional tails from there. That involves pulling out the main fuse at the meter. If you go that way, you might as well install an isolating switch for the entire installation while you are at it. Don't be tempted to work on this side of the CU with the power on.
The other issue to deal with is whether you want to export the earth from the house or to create a separate TT system with an earth rod at the garage. The latter is recommended if there is more than a few metres distance between the two. There are past posts on how to do it if you search in Google Groups. It does affect how you terminate the SWA cable at either end and what you fit as protection at each end - RCD types etc.
Also, you need to decide the amount of current that you need and hence the size of SWA. There is information on this in the IEE On Site Guide or in the technical section on TLC's web site. Generally 4 or
6 sqmm is used..andy
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Well, I may as well lay 6sqmm if I am going to do it. I won't be using any workshop style tools, but I like to be prepared *in case* I do, or even for future residents of my house.
I have two spare RCDs in my MCU so I think one of those can be used, and the garage will be about 2-3 away from the MCU so maybe I can share the earth there rather than install an earth rod.
This all seems a lot more managable when there are people with experience. No doubt I will be back in January/February discussing it some more. Thanks for the continued help Andy.
Phil S.
On
C U = consumer unit, where the wires to go. MCB = miniature contact breaker, these fit in the C U, take the place of the old type fuses. RCD/RCCD = Residual current device a device which protects you from current flowing where it should not go, normally through you !!. RCD can also fit in C U.
Dave
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