Pilot light gas usage

based on 2.5p/kWh, this works out at about 275 watts of heat output on a continuous basis. This is about an order of magnitude more than I would have expected for a pilot light... i.e. it does not sound right IMO.

How did you arrive at the figure of GBP60 / year?

it neglects the shorter lifetime, lower reilability, and higher repair costs of a newer boiler.

NT

My boiler pilot light for water heating was about £1 per week two years ago. Depends on the size and shape of the thing. The large fan shaped ones are the most expensive that I found.

On 6 Dec 2006 04:09:35 -0800 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote this:-

How did you work this out?

The pilot light heat is not wasted in my archaic convection glowworm boiler as it all goes toward heating the hot water tank. That may not be true in a fully pumped system, I'm not that expert.

rusty

Yep. Taking meter readings (mine's a cubic metres one and reads to the third decimal place) my ancient Glowworm boiler uses 0.44 cu.m per day just on the pilot light.

Not on your nelly.

The chap that services my boiler - 27 years and doing just fine - knows of one that's over 40 years old and in fine condition. How many replacement new-type boilers would have given up the ghost in that time?

And don't forget thet they are blessed with that modern invention, the Circuit Board, that you can't mend and costs a fortune to replace, even though it's got no more electronics in it than a scanning FM receiver from Poundland. Well, two receivers from Poundland, anyway.

The message from Frank Lee Speke-King contains these words:

Oh yes you can - and oh no it doesn't! Well, usually and not always.

That's nearly 5kWh per day, which suggest the pilot flame is producing

Some interesting stats at:

I have done some of my own tests and calcs and would say that 50-200W give or take is plausible. This is 2 magnitudes smaller than when in operation, but is 24/7. Hence the several % effect on the overall annual energy usage.

I don't agree (I wouldn't would I?) with those who _automatically_ state that a modern boiler is less reliable than a traditional type.

A _quality_ modern boiler might also have a long life. Electronics are not unreliable per se. The materials used are potentially better than those used traditionally.

Forgetting the cost of the gas used for a minute, you're assuming all that energy is wasted. It's not - only a proportion is. The rest goes to keeping the water inside the boiler warm so it doesn't have to heat up so far when it fires next. More wastage when the system isn't in use though I suppose.

Well.... no....

You could be doing the sharp intake of breath routine and saying something like

"Mrs Jones....... it's yer pump"

whereupon Mrs. Jones mouths in a hushed voice...

"Will it be all right?"

and you give a wry smile and nod, resulting in a very relieved looking Mrs Jones (who would be willing to pay anything to know this) and an apprentice who looks on in total wonderment at how BG can possibly get away with charging £150 per annum for this.

Hadn't thought of it like that, but there's only so much water inside a boiler. As soon as the pump starts and cold water is drawn in then surely this preheating effect is minimal?

Of course if a boiler can effectively use this heat to keep the water warm, you might also argue it is just as likely to be radiating it back up the flue, once the balance has been reached between heat gain and heat loss. At what water temperature this might occur, I wouldn't care to guess. At 60 pounds/year and assuming the old boiler is significantly less efficient anyway, an immediate investment in a new boiler could be easily justified.

What surprises me is that a pilot light needs to be set at such a level that it is producing 200W of heat anyway. Most of us would think that leaving 200W of lighting on 24/7 would be wasteful in the extreme, even if electricity is 3 times as expensive as gas.

Almost certainly an efficient switch mode supply.

Probably a cheap inneficient transformer and linear regulator.

Anytime the heating is on, the heat from your wall warts isn't wasted.

| |> Forgetting the cost of the gas used for a minute, you're assuming all that |> energy is wasted. It's not - only a proportion is. The rest goes to |> keeping the water inside the boiler warm so it doesn't have to heat up so |> far when it fires next. More wastage when the system isn't in use though I |> suppose. | |Hadn't thought of it like that, but there's only so much water inside a |boiler. As soon as the pump starts and cold water is drawn in then |surely this preheating effect is minimal?

But the energy is then used to heat the house, *not* wasted as you imply. Almost all the energy which does not get to the boiler eventually heats the house, so is not wasted.

How many hours in the year do you leave doors and windows open to cool the house? Only during that small time is the energy used by the pilot light truly wasted.

It probably also has a poor power factor as well as being left on 24/77. Someone said there's a move afoot to replace all consumer meters with new ones that charge by volt-amps rather than watts. They were coming to do mine this month. Its a double whammy since not only are gadgets like Sky and Freeview boxes left on 24/7 (going to standby doesn't make much difference) but they will charge consumption by the amps instead of real power. Could be nearly 10p per day per box.

rusty

| | |>

|> [Slight topic shift - has anyone bought one of those power usage |> devices and found it useful? I'm thinking of checking out what power |> my various toys on standby use. For example, my laptop charger seems |> to cool right off when off-charge (although I tend to disconnect it |> anyway) whereas the brick for my DAB radio is always warm.] | |It probably also has a poor power factor as well as being left on 24/77. |Someone said there's a move afoot to replace all consumer meters with new |ones that charge by volt-amps rather than watts. They were coming to do |mine this month. |Its a double whammy since not only are gadgets like Sky and Freeview boxes |left on 24/7 (going to standby doesn't make much difference) but they will |charge consumption by the amps instead of real power. Could be nearly 10p |per day per box.

Anyone selling mains power factor correction capacitors? They should work, but I would want to use a meter which measured power factor to check that they were not over correcting, which would cost money.

The little 13A plug in power meter adaptors that Maplin sell and also Aldi, Lidl from time to time will read either volt-amps or watts and show power factor and accumulated cost. A old style Sky box has a power factor of about 0.6 and draws 15VA which is well OTT.

rusty

"useful"? Probably not very, but "interesting", most definately.

I don't think domestic customers are allowed to be charged that way. Only industrial customers.

Power factor correction capacitors only work to correct lagging current. Low power factor caused by modern electronic appliances does not fall into this category (there's no phase shift), and can't be corrected by factor correction capacitors.