Oue house is damp.



Its probaly very much the cause of the drying. Warm air holds far more moisture than cold, and as warm water laden air swaps with drier outdoor air (even when its raining there is less water vapour in cold air), damp gets removed. Its how most houses handle the dampness produced within.
NT
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On 1 Nov,

We've had a dehumidifier on he landing for years, in fact thinking of replacing it (or heat recovery ventillation) It's quite effective in a well insulated and draughtproofed house. It definitely reduces the moisture in the air, and warms it. With electric heating it will cost little to run as it also heats partly with electricity and partly from the latent heat from the condensate.
Ours was bought after discovering mould in one of the north facing bedrooms. Cured it completely. It struggled to cope with 6 in the house, but now the offspring are starting to flee the nest it's adequate.
A dehumidifier is quite effective. The alternative is ventilation with warm air (and that means heating it one way or another).
--
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snipped-for-privacy@privacy.net wrote: <snip> We've had a dehumidifier on he landing for years, in fact thinking of

</snip>
"latent heat from the condensate" is a nice technical term that may not be well understood. So let me try to explain...
One point first. Steam that you see is little drops of water. You can make water into a gas, and if you look right next to the spout of a boiling kettle you see a little clear bit before the white stuff. That's water as a gas. You can call it steam, or water vapour; it doesn't have to be hot if mixed with air.
You know if you leave a saucepan of water on the hob, and it's boiling, the water isn't getting any hotter even though the gas/electricity is going flat out? That's because the energy is being used to make steam from water.
Or if you leave a damp towel hanging up it gets cold? Same reason - it needs heat to make the water into water vapour.
That's latent heat, and you can get it back.
A dehumidifier turns water vapour back into water. It takes some energy to run the thing, but the energy from making the vapour back into water ends up as heat, and it heats the room. You get MORE heat out of a dehumidifier than the electricity that went into it.
Put a dehumidifier on a timer so it runs on the Economy 7 that your heating is on and you'll get a dry house, AND you'll cut your power bill. Only slightly, but every little helps.
Andy
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wrote:

Yes, it is. The OP isnt producing any unreasonable sources of dampness within the house, the damp produced is normal. You cant sop people breathing, cooking and showering. The question is merely one of how to get rid of the normal amount of damp produced. There are other options, but a dh is the cheapest and surest.
NT
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Every condensing drier I've ever seen in use creates a lot of humidity in the room its being used in. I'd look into a vented type that shoots the wet air outside.
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 09:17:37 -0000, whiskeyomega wrote:

Do they have extractor fans and do you use them?

That is part of the problem. You need to keep the place warmer to prevent the air near cold surfaces getting below the dew point. Along with reducing (as much as practicable) the amount of moisture in the air by ventilation in the key "wet" areas of bathrooms/showers/kitchen.

How much is this "arm and a leg", the annual oil bill here is about 1600 (assuming 40p/l). You mention all electric. Does that include space heating? If so one assumes you are on a tariff suitable for that use (E7 or E10). Have you checked the tariffs of other suppliers, you could be paying as much as double what you need to. Plenty of websites that will tell you that information.

A 1950's house as built would have had lot's of "natural" ventilation with single glazed unsealed windows and door frames. What you have is the typical problem of sealing up an "old" property with insulation and double glazing.
Do those bricked up chimneys have vents into the room where the fireplaces would have been? Are the tops sealed or ventilated? Does the double glazing have trickle vents in the frames?
--
Cheers
Dave.




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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 09:17:37 -0000, whiskeyomega wrote:

Do they have extractor fans and do you use them?

That is part of the problem. You need to keep the place warmer to prevent the air near cold surfaces getting below the dew point. Along with reducing (as much as practicable) the amount of moisture in the air by ventilation in the key "wet" areas of bathrooms/showers/kitchen.

How much is this "arm and a leg", the annual oil bill here is about 1600 (assuming 40p/l).
Well, no we are not paying 1600 a year. Our bill last year for electric for the whole year came to about 1000. W e are all electric so no other fuel costs.
Our last bill was 158.73 for the quarter. That was running three 1. 5 KW heaters and all other appliances ( fridge , freezer etc.) for the last quarter. I had to put them on because it was cold and I was ill. It was also pretty wet and cold for the summer so I had the heating on more than usual.
I give the electric people 66 a month which is their calculation of what our electric costs to run for the year. According to the bill we are currently in credit 158.60 across the year so far.
But I have the 3KW heater on in the living area now instead ( took the little heater off) . So it will go up for the winter quarter. If they put the direct debit up OH says we will have to take a heater off. I am allowed 1000 a year for heating no more. It used to cost us about 1200 two years ago with all the heating on but then they put the prices up and my OH cut us back on the use of the heating.
I cut back the use of cooker etc myself to stop the condensation.
If it gets chilly we have a halogen heater for the sitting room which we put on 500w to keep warmer.
He kept seeing the TV ads about being well insulated and cutting the bills by turning down the heating and said we could do that. He says we need to put more clothes on instead of heating the air. ( I am sitting here in a coat by the way)
You mention all electric. Does that include space heating? If so one assumes you are on a tariff suitable for that use (E7 or E10). Have you checked the tariffs of other suppliers, you could be paying as much as double what you need to. Plenty of websites that will tell you that information.
I have what qualifies as just about the cheapest supplier for my area. I say just about because the prices keep changing .

Do those bricked up chimneys have vents into the room where the fireplaces would have been?
No. I dont even know if they were taken out and bricked or just sealed over.
Are the tops sealed or ventilated? Does
The chimneys are open . I know that because we thought about putting a coal fire in one of them. We have three fireplaces in the house including one in the kitchen ( once had an aga and boiler there I think)
<<the double glazing have trickle vents in the frames?>>
I dont know what these are so I am guessing no.
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 11:26:36 -0000, whiskeyomega wrote:

On top of the 1600/year oil bill we also pay that for 'lectric, energy costs here are about 2500/year.
1000/year for all energy costs is on the low side:
http://www.whatprice.co.uk/utilities/gas-bills.html 3 bed bungalow - 850
http://www.whatprice.co.uk/utilities/electricity-bills.html 3 bed bungalow - 746
or 1600 total energy bill... Of course if you don't have the money to afford to spend more on energy there is a problem.
You obviously don't need to to heat the little used rooms to full comfort temperature. Turn the heaters down as low as they will go in those rooms and that may well be enough to stop the condensation. No heat all is asking for trouble, as you have found out.

The winter will soon take care of that...

If you want to go that route it would be better to install a small stove rather than an open fire. Can you get trailer loads logs for a reasonable price where you are? Burning wood is greener than coal.
Personally I think your "eco warrior OH" is going a bit OTT and needs to pull his finger out over building maintenance, comfort levels and your (both of yours) health.
--
Cheers
Dave.




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Personally I think your "eco warrior OH" is going a bit OTT and needs to pull his finger out over building maintenance, comfort levels and your (both of yours) health.
I think he has gone over the top too, but trying to tell him that is a problem.
Thanks for the comparisons for untility bills. Of course since we dont have alternative heating sources all our heating and cooking and everything is electric. I only have one power bill.
OH thinks its too high - dont know where he gets the figures.
I had a shock the other day when I found out my neighbour paid 246 a quarter for water. I dont pay that a year let alone a quarter. But OH thinks we pay too much water too.
If I could, I would get rid of him. Unfortunately I married him 30 years ago and he doesnt want to leave.
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 14:27:56 -0000, whiskeyomega wrote:

That's partly why I quoted my costs and those web links. Something to show that 1000/year total energy cost is low and that just a little bit of extra heat may well sort the damp problem.
Being "green" is all well and good but one still has to have a comfortable place in which to live. So the OH save a few hundred quid on power bill but what if you "forget" to keep airing and drying stuff and suddenly find that all your clothes, bed linen etc have gone mouldy and have to be chucked out and replaced? Not to mention the health aspects.
--
Cheers
Dave.




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Dave Liquorice wrote:

Yeah but . . . where is the water coming from? It sounds so extreme that some sort of bridging/penetrating/rising could well be happening. Also, have you changed the occupancy?
Before you try 'consulatants' I think this site is worth a look:
http://www.dampbuster.com /
He's produced a few videos that raise some interesting questions about diagnosis and treatment. In my opinion - I am certainly not an expert.
Rob
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whiskeyomega wrote:

Our 1930's house is end terrace. The guttering at the far end cuts across and slightly into the brickwork of two chimmney stacks. On several occasions (before we installed an additional downpipe) some rainwater had overflowed the gutter and leaked into the chimney itself.
The damp caused in upstairs rooms was eventually erradicated by the downpipe and dry-lining of that wall, also opening up a previously sealed room vent for the box room.
--
Adrian C

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I know our guttering leaks like a sieve in places. Its old cast iron. It mostly leaks on joints. It leaks in the corner in the kitchen ( dont know about the front), on the joint outside the bathroom to my knowledge, across most of the one side of the house around the spare bedroom and it might be leaky around the main bedroom too I havent looked.
I have told my husband about it but he says its OK and doesnt want to do anything about it. he did say he would go and put some putty around one of the joints. to hold the downpout together but he hasnt done that yet. ;-(
I did ask about getting new guttering but apparently we might have to have new soffits and facias as well - but as far as I can see, the facias are well painted and not rotting. The soffits I am not sure about. I know its old and past it round the front door canopy area.
Husband says it will cost too much. I am not sure how much that is though.
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whiskeyomega explained :

I would suggest that alone might well be much or all of the cause of your problem. You have already stated that the problem is worse, when the weather is wet. If any water is running down the walls, it will make its way inside.
At least get the gutters and fall pipes removed and replaced with modern plastic ones - it needant cost that much.
You make mention of everything being damp, that is a really serious to health problem. I'm sure I could turn our heating system off completely and it might feel cool, but it certainly would not be in the slightest bit damp. The damp internal air you are suffering, will need even more warmth to make it feel comfortable.
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
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On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:02:28 GMT, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Oh it would. We only heat the barn (conversion) part to about 12C. We don't live in that part but the space is still damp. Not to the extent of mould or anything near that but definitely not dry as in the properly heated part in which we live and cook/wash etc.
--
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Dave.




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wrote:

If your house suddenly became damp - and it wasn't before - then clearly something has happened and water is entering the property.
You have to be a 'detective' and note if it is associated with rainfall or not. If not, concentrate on the inside plumbing.
I had a similar experience with excessive condensation in my house in the 1990s, and initially I put it down to my lack of double-glazing. I also brought in a de-humidifier and let it run continuously. But I was wrong about that.
Finally I stumbled on a source of the problem. A pinhole leak had occurred in the main water incomer pipe, and a very fine water spray was emerging - and as I had warm air heating via ducts this vapour was being distributed around the house.
Your problem will probably be something similar, so search for a water leak somewhere - it may be under floorboards.
David
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wrote:

That's how you caused the damp. By taking a house which leaked air and sealing it up where do you think all the moisture you still generate is going to go?

Where do you dry them? Are you using a dryer vented to outside?

Your DG windows should have trickle vents in them - do they?

Air has low mass and is cheap to heat.

There is only one solution and that is to improve ventilation to acceptable levels. You can fit extractor fans to areas such as the kitchen and bathroom or preferably fit whole house ventilation such as described at http://www.ubbink.co.uk/whole_house_vent/concept.htm

Dehumidifiers are the quick solution and as they return heat to the house are not that expensive to run. Do get proper ones though such as the Ebac range http://www.ebac.com/dehumidifier-productselector.php
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I usually dry on the line outside . I have a pish washer dryer I use sparingly ( as it does run up the electric bill a but. But the main problem is that , I dry my clothes and bring them in and they get damp again!
Even if I leave them in the airing cupboard or over a chair they will get damp even after I have dried them thoroughly/
The bedding is even worse. Its always damp at night, not matter how often I change it or how well I dry the beds out and air them during the day.

I keep being asked this. I dont think so. Its old, put in about 1980 . Wooden framed though. I have opening windows , thats about it.
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wrote:

Condensing dryers (or washer/dryers) actually release a lot of moisture back into the room, typically a litre or more per load.

Do a Google Images search for "trickle vents" and you will see pictures of various types.
From what you have said the major problem appears to be a combination of poor ventilation, inadequate heating and a nincompoop for a partner.
The solution is -
1. Throw out the partner 2. Get a de-humidifier (they work particularly well in bungalows) 3. Turn up the heating 4. Next summer - arrange for better ventilation to be fitted.
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wrote

I'm rather surprised about that. Most like mine use a sealed primary, where the moist warm air is cooled through a heat exchanger. The condensate from the primary side is then pumped to a storage container.
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