I was delighted to learn that my AEG (but apparently now Electrolux) tumble dryer used a multipole (?8) three phase induction motor at 240Hz, saving weight and cost and avoiding brushes to improve reliability.
I would have been more impressed if its bearings had not completely disintegrated after two years of moderate use.
The 13 month old Zanussi washing machine we picked up from Freecyle had been 'written off' by their insurance co for not being economically viable to repair (after 13 months ffs)!
Long / short, we stripped it down, cut the tub in half along the seam, removed the drum, replaced the seal and fitted a pair of *decent* bearings, put it back together and got another ~7+ years out of it. ;-)
Similar story with the motor bearings on the Zanussi TD. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
First, congratulations. Nice job.
Second, you don't dispute that it was not an economic repair at normal charge rates?
Cheers, we were pleased. ;-)
No, not at all, and part of that was down to stupid penny pinching by Zanussi during manufacture.
The plastic tub was *designed* to be bolted together at about 8 points and to be sealed by a circular neoprene seal trapped between both halves.
To save the cost of the screws, seal and assembly that way, they welded the two halves together (friction?).
If you replaced that tub with the std split tub (and you could), I believe you also needed to replace some other bits (mounts or dampers) and that racked the component price up.
Most people on the Whitegoods Forum told me that the plastic couldn't be sealed with any form of sealant (nothing would stick to that plastic) so even if we do all the mechanics, it was still likely to leak. So, before we cut in half along the seal we pre-drilled the lugs to take M6 SS bolts and had to space the gap out evenly (at the lugs) to counteract the width of the saw cut (with SS washers). We fitted a suitably sized neoprene seal (neoprene foam rubber) with a spliced joint at the top and backed up with CT1.
Never leaked a drop and it was probably used every other day (at least) over the next &+ years.
Now, it took us (the Mrs and I) a bit of time because it was breaking new ground (wouldn't work so no one had tried) but I don't think it would take us as long to do again.
When the replacement bearing finally fail I did intend stripping it down and replacing them again but daughter stepped in and bought us a new Bosch so I never got the chance. ;-(
Theoretically, all the hard work had been done (cutting the tub in half and drilling the lugs etc) and there was no reason we couldn't have re-sealed it again. ;-)
I guess the only reason such things aren't considered viable any more is things are so cheap (because they aren't made in the UK) and wages so high (in comparison with the cost of the equipment etc).
The crime is with Zanussi welding the tub together and I think the EU were looking at forcing manufacturers to make things repairable again?
But hey, who on earth would want to be associated with any agency that did that sort of thing, or that anyone in a d-i-y group would support it! ;-(
Cheers, T i m
Reminds me of an office at work that had their HP LaserJet break down. They were told it would cost about £350 for parts and labour, and decided to get a replacement.
The machine was about 3 years old in 1996, manufactured in 1993.
I 'took it off their hands' when they asked me to help get it in a skip.
It was a LaserJet 4+. The fuser had failed. I bought a new lamp [1] and fitted it. I didn't have a manual at the time but sorted it eventually. That was 1996. I am STILL using it and it's done about 150,000 pages - nowhere near its rated life. I have done about 120,000 of those.
[1] I bought the lamp from somewhere in the USA. I couldm't find a UK supplier at the time, although there obvio8usly were some (two refused to sell one to a private individual). The lamp cost me about £50 because there was a very high carriage charge. It turned out they'd charged me for one lamp, sent a pack of ten, and charged carriage on the actual weight. They said to keep the rest as it wasn't economic to return them. I sold three and recouped my £50 and kept the rest as spares.
The gotcha seems to be "for professional repairers". Just because spares are available to professionals for repair it doesn't mean the cost of repair is cheaper than buying new. Assembled by robots is likely to be much cheaper than strip and re-assemble by a human.
I did similar for the Co I worked for. They had server HPLJ and Cannons (same engine as it happen) and sometimes the fusers would fail or the fuser rollers get damaged (the non-stick coating scraped off).
I think they were quoted (say) £100 to get them repaired so I did some research on the difficulty and the cost / availability of the parts and said I'd do it for about 'half price'. Plus, I could swap them out 'overnight' (I had keys to the place as I was on call for comms kit housed in our building).
I think I did 4 in the end. ;-)
Excellent. I have a small colour laser here I got off Freecycle and 'fixed' by shorting out the O/C thermal switch in the fuser (I never leave it unattended) and a big Ricoh colour laser that a mate was going to throw away because it kept 'locking up' that I fixed with a firmware update. ;-)
I did suggest doing such a thing for him but he just wanted rid and a new one.?
The only time I've paid a lot for carriage was for a CFL for a laptop LCD display back light (also from the USA I think). I ordered two and the carriage cost more than the items and one was broken when it got here.
I managed to get the remaining one into the LCD screen and I think it's still working now. ;-)
Many wouldn't have told them. I always do and like you, they generally apologise and ask me if I don't mind keeping the surplus. ;-)
Neat. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Don't they say 'to start with'?
Of course. But as long as the parts are available to anyone (possibly with some riders), I think you could substitute 'professional' for 'competent?
True (depending where etc) but it's not (always) only about the money is it?
Like, our TD has broken down a few times in the many years we have had it and the last time (motor bearings seized) we decided it might be a good time for something more modern, so started looking around. After 'wasting' quite a bit of time, we ended up repairing the old one yet again because it was *easier* than trying to find a direct replacement, one not gagging to set fire to the house, or need emptying ... or didn't fill the hose with damp or cost a fortune etc. ;-(
Against the clock, I think I could replace the motor bearings in less than 30 mins?
It is tricky though as you say. There was a Uk Co that sold washing machines that had some very long warrantees and guarantees of cheap spares over that period but it fell by the wayside because people have too much money and in many cases, would rather buy new?
Still, repairable stuff gives the likes of me access to stuff I couldn't or wouldn't want to buy new. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Ah, sounds like an LG sort of design where the whole drum and direct drive motor are one sealed unit but some have found that sealed, is not the same as sealed for life when the whole thing ground to a halt and the replacement cost more than the new machine. Brian
I also have an HP 2600n that I got off Freecycle because it didn't work. It was less than a mile away.
It had a permanent magenta cast on all pages. Cleaning cycles didn't help. It was also complaining about one of the cartridges. Then I discovered:
- the machine had only done about 4000 pages EVER.
- the black cartridge had been replaced once, with a 'compatible'.
- the colour carts were all empty (masked by the black cartridge error)
Turns out that the excess toner bin in the magenta catridge was overflowing and colouring all the prints. I put in three new colour cartridges (and a black one as it was nearly empty anyway). Ran a cleaning cycle and it's perfect (and nearly new).
Sorry, that should have said 'I shorted out one of the two thermal switches that were in series (and one had failed going o/c). ;-)
Brilliant ... and this is going on all the time and had it not been put of Freecyle and been picked up by you, it could well (best case) being recycled when now it's being used (or at least useable).
I often take (properly) faulty stuff to pieces, 1) to recover some of the bits I can use, 2) to see what they contain and 3) to allow me to get rid of them by properly recycling.
And that's the things that are being disposed of because they 'need attention'. Many things are (or would be) thrown away if people didn't put themselves out a bit by putting them on the likes of Freecycle / Freegle.
Because I know there is so much easily repairable stuff out there on Freecycle, it's only like a shop in that if you can't see something you want being offered, you can ask and often get it (some people are happy to respond to a polite 'Please wanted' request than put stuff up to get grabbed by a greedy person to sell).
Step daughter wanted a better working upright cleaner and I looked on Freecycle. Someone had two (both 'needing attention'), I popped round there and took one (helping her out as getting rid of them was her goal) brought it home, vacuumed it out (with the Henry), washed the plastic bits so they came up nice and clean and took it to her the next day, looking (and working) like new? ;-)
I think (new) it was a couple of hundred pounds worth of Dyson and it served her well for some time after.
Given she was working as a carer at the time, if she's had to pay £200 for a new cleaner she'd have to earn more than that to cover it and she would rather not have to waste a good few hours caring, just for a vacuum cleaner (or spend any money on a cleaner if she didn't have to). ;-)
But I guess for the likes of us to benefit from such things, we need people who don't have the skills or that can justify paying the 'professionals' to repair such things (assuming you can find one these days) for us to enjoy such good fortune. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
but that's normal
having to take the front of a car apart to fit new bulbs, save pennies in manufacture
and costs 100s of pounds in maintenance costs
but they still do it
Don't buy the car, then. Buy one that is a bit more modular in construction and pay the extra manufacturing cost instead of the (larger) maintenance cost.
100 pounds doesn't seem excessive for an on site visit, for even the simplest repair
RTB perhaps not
can't fix the stupid user
HTH
tim
Yup, we have the power, assuming the government isn't giving our money away to support animal cruelty, human chemical consumption, inefficient resource usage and environmental damage / pollution.
Cheers, T i m
I think that's what it was (for your £100). You took them out (only two screws I think), sent them off and they either refurbed yours or sent you a refurbed one.
Or you paid up front, they sent you a refurbed one, you swapped it out and sent the old one back in the same packaging.
Whatever the deal, mine was half the price. ;-)
Same with my Co car. Due for renewal after 3 years, I offered to keep it and share whatever savings they made over me having a new one. I kept the car and got another fifty quid / month in my wages and they saved 50 quid a month as well.
The understanding was that it had to be done on a whole year by year basis and only whilst the vehicle continued to look ok and wasn't costing much to maintain.
I kept that deal going for 12 years (before I bought the car off them for 25 quid and carried on using it for another 11 years privately). ;-)
Cheers, T i m
you only have that power when companies make the goods in question. Who makes easily repaired cars now?
NT
Not had that yet and our place had a cage for 'Hard plastic'. So that's typically kids toys and anything that isn't obviously recyclable, like plastic bottles etc.
I guess those of us brought up in the 'make do and mend' era are dying off and many won have had the opportunity to pass that ethic off onto their kids.
Luckily I did with out daughter and she learn at an early age that she could get a lot more bang for her buck by buying (say) good (often) branded clothes in the charity shop rather than new.
She's just bought what was probably a very expensive flexible shelving unit off Gumtree and spent a little bit of time cleaning the overspill wall paint off it and removing, cleaning and re-spraying the metal 'ends' on each of the solid wood shelves. Id lave to say it looks like new and is very strong / versatile.
She's about to sell her (s/h) leather sofa to replace it with a fabric covered sofa-bed, because it makes her feel in conflict with her vegan ideals.
I'm not sure I would go that far myself (especially as she didn't buy it from new) but it and the side chair are a bit big in her medium sized flat.
Back to the recycling of stripped down components .... whilst I agree that sometimes the recycling centre rules can be a bit bizarre, in theory it's better for them if they get given faulty electrical goods pre split into their key components. They must get more money for clean raw materials?
If I was to remove the copper wire from an electric motor I would get more money from the copper alone than I would for it as a complete motor. A complete motor would still be better than a whole washing machine as it all get's priced as 'mixed light iron' (the plastics weigh little and you lose the value of the copper).
Cheers, T i m
but you don't normally have a chance to find out these things
especially if it's a new model and no-one has yet got to the point of having to change a bulb (or whatever it is that's difficult)
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