In message , Nightjar wrote
It still took some skill to bomb the correct target. Many poorly trained German pilots couldn't use the navigation aids properly. Even on the allied side the pathfinders could mark the target but often the following bombers released their load early and just got the hell out of there!
Harris had Directives to follow, one of which contained the following:
"Your Primary object will be the progressive destruction and dislocation of the German military, industrial, and economic system, and the undermining of the morale of the German people to a point where their capacity for armed resistance is fatally weakened".
Assuming that the "undermining of the morale of the German people" equates to the "demoralis[ing of] the population", then Harris was following the strategy and policy of his superiors, and that only left the tactics to be determined.
I've never seen it argued that pin-point raids on targets would demoralise or undermine the German people.
Terry Fields
I don't recall 'I was only following orders' being much of a defence for any Germans after the war
However, the evidence from the Blitz was that bombing civilians had exactly the opposite effect; it strengthened their resolve.
It might have been enough to weaken fatally their capacity for armed resistance though, which was the main point of the directive. Had Harris followed orders and followed up the second American daylight raid on Schweinfurt with a night attack the German ability to manufacture ball bearings would almost certainly have been completely destroyed, instead of merely being badly damaged. Albert Speer, who was quite well placed to know, was of the opinion that continued bombing of the site could have stopped all German armament production within four months.
Colin Bignell
In message , Nightjar wrote
That view is more to do with propaganda than fact.
That view has to do with knowing people who were there.
Colin Bignell
well see what the Germans at Hamburg & Dresden felt.
Hiroshima caused Japan to capitulate.
But the Allies won and the Germans lost. Nonetheless, Goring's defence at Nuremburg virtually brought the trials to a standstill, until that way was found around it.
Yes, that is well known, but I was talking about the orders that Harris was under, rather than the philosophy, misguided or otherwise, that underpinned them.
The progressive destruction and dislocation of Germany's industrial, military and economic systems was in there too, and I've never seen it suggested that pin-point bombing could achieve this. Such a philosophy underpinned the approach of the USAAF, but it didn't work in Europe, and it is to be doubted whether the RAF as a whole could have done any better.
As soon as Schweinfurt was attacked, the Germans went on a buying spree for ball-bearings; it's said that diplomats came back with suitcases bulging with bearings. In general, air raids on factories disrupted production for about three months, and the Germans soon learned the value of dispersal.
Terry Fields
Quite so.
My parents, who brought up a young family during the war and spent many nights in a cold, damp air-raid shelter, cheered when they heard Churchill declare 'We will give them back 10 for one'. My mother queued hours for essentials, and at one point my father worked 120 hours a week.
Terry Fields
I knew people who were in both places and still know one who was in Dresden and they felt much the same as the British I knew who went through the Blitz - anger rather than demoralisation.
Colin Bignell
No, it's the truth. None of the bombed populations gave up, none of them demanded that the government surrender. They continued to work and many of them worked all the harder.
Not just in the UK, in Germany also.
Bollocks. The production of ball bearings can be (and was) easily dispersed among houses, sheds and bunkers (both military and coal), as all the machinery involved is surprisingly small and relatively portable.
Yes, and nobody dared to object, as defeatism could get you shot.
Found it; looks interesting, ta.
All of it. I've worked in a ball bearing plant and seen the kit. There are differing sizes of it; it's not all huge. That was for the actual balls - races can be knocked out on basic lathes; recall, all that's needed is a bare design to get the tanks moving, and none of the sophistication we have now.
Do f*ck off.
Hoffamsn ball bearing factory in WWII was huge - 7000 employees. You cant move that sort of production to a few cottages in Essex.
Funny how the Germans did just that then, isn't it?
Well not really, because they didn't in any significant way..
So, how many were shot for defeatism?
Terry Fields
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