OT: Lithium ion battery developments

" That means that the capacity of your current batteries is over 1.5 times what they would have held a decade ago."

Am I supposed to be impressed?

Not exactly Moore's Law, is it. Of course it is still worth having. In the absence of real physics/material breakthroughs (like, for example, a single layer atomic structure like graphene, but an insulator) it's getting close to physical limits, although cost will continue to come down.

The performance improvement in phones and the like will come from lower consumption chips. I don't see the same applying to EV motors.

Funny you should mention that, but:

Yep, that was a very interesting story. More interesting than nuclear fusion stories.

I dunno how much is hype, but if not it could be significant. With massively quicker charge times it might be possible to reduce battery capacity too. Maybe charge at traffic lights etc, with smart infrastructure.

Plus I hardly every drive more than 50 miles in one go.

If you don't compare it to computers, it's not so bad. Think of other fields: are there washing machines that improved their water use by 50%? Are there planes that got 50% more fuel efficiency?

It is after all a chemistry problem, and you don't make 10x improvements in those overnight.

As mentioned, an EV going from 200 miles range to 300 miles range is definitely worth having, and could be the tipping point for some people.

Theo

It's a good roundup of *some* of the different lithium ion chemistries and how things haven't *really* been improving at all, and how that impacts applications such as phones and EVs.

My reactions exactly

As I say, back in the noughties my first lithium flight packs were lighter than any on sale today. But they couldn't do very high currents Today cells with 2-3 times the *power* density, are available - but the energy density is actually less...

Again one is pushing at the limits: even in chop terms flops per watt is running into barriers. The best way forward is probably 'low power

As far as cars go it isn't going to get much better without different battery *technology*.

We have seen what EVs could be with a battery that doesn't yet exist. And wont. What we need is a complete re-evaluation in the way we do things, like whether or not private transport is allowed to continue. Greens will be batting for that. Only Party Zils in special lanes allowed for the virtuous

Airliners hardly ever experience more than 1.5G loading. Do you want to fly in one that *can't* experience more than 1.5G loading without the wings folding?

Like the Greens you mean, who will need the special lanes in order to check up on the rest of us.

A better example: There's no point having an airliner that can perform aerobatics safely, as that is not what it is used for.

Besides that, the only real need for a car that can do more than 50 miles is to attend a funeral the other side of Ireland at incredibly short notice. ;)

I was recently looking at climbing equipment, generally specified as safe up to loads of 25KN, I suspect I fell for the hype and cheaper 12KN would have been fine for me.

However car range is different.

There are two factors. The main factor of range is how often I'm willing to stop to refuel. With Lithium Ion batteries the problem is long charging times, people want bigger capacities because they don't want to stop from an hour to recharge. If they can recharge in minutes they would be more willing to stop.

The car battery analogy to your example is the power reserve I need to get me to a recharging station in case of emergency. Where I live I would expect recharging stations to be closely spaced, requiring little emergency capacity.

That is just one problem. The other problem ins fundamental and insoluble.

How much extractable and viable lithium is there in the world?

If there isn't enough we will need another form of secondary energy storage. They would not have revived and been hyping up 'hydrogen' if there was any prospect that batteries would work.

When that doesn't work either, some bushy-tailed ArtStudent? will have a lightbulb moment and say 'why don't we make renewable diesel fuel?'

Which is precisely what I reckon will happen.

Burn that with *pure* oxygen and hey presto - no NOx!, just CO2 and water. Collect the CO2 and water and feed it back to your syndiesel plant...

But its the journey that is to somewhere that you *dont* live that is the problem.

Your argument is as circular as a long playing record

Interesting.

I forget the numbers, but doesn't a motorway petrol station effectively deliver tens of megawatts of power when its fuel pumps are all going. So, to achieve equivalent performance in terms of "refuelling" times recharging stations are going to need fairly substantial grid connections as we reduce the present battery charging rate restrictions. Or else be connected to a hydrogen grid with some big fuel cells. Either way, there are significant infrastructure questions on top of any basic technology solution.

Also, most of the demand for charge will be during the working day. Petrol stations have very efficient storage so although the capital (the pumps) is under utilised, it doesn't screw the economics because these are cheap.

Stop. No one sane is suggesting batteries for grid long term energy store. The most they would be used for on the grid is very short term smoothing.

Hydrogen is a possible candidate for long term (seasonal) energy store. It is ballpark economic (i.e. within an order of magnitude).

Biodiesel? It doesn't scale, but we do do it.

A field of rapeseed? Or one of those fusion plants, that are on the verge of being on the verge of... being very expensive.

Eh? No, you have charging infrastructure.

The are spirals, aren't they?

Yes yes, I've made this point a number of times. Good to see you've been paying attention.

Yes but it is *particularly* relevent to a link that says "charge anxiety over, new battery charges 60 times faster".

Actually I would not be surprised if washing machines had not done that, and aero engine efficiency improvement is probably in double digits over a decade. And gas turbines have been around for more than 70 years.

yes, but they are really not show stoppers.

I am sure a fast motorway charge will not come at domestic rates