OT(ish) insuring an empty property

We may have to insure an empty property for a month or so; so far so good, we just look up specialist insurers. Any recommendations welcome, of course.

However first Google gave me one of the usual suspects:

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which included the fascinating paragraph

"The insurer will also typically insist that you remove all valuables, drain the water system, set the heating to the frost setting during the winter months to avoid burst pipes, switch off the utilities and regularly inspect the property."

Having analysed the logic of the above, I would like to know

(1) how you leave the heating on the frost setting if you have drained the water system and turned off all utilities

(2) If you have drained the water system, why do you need to protect against burst pipes?

Next bit says "It's also a good idea to make the place look lived in, perhaps by installing timer switches for the lights and asking a neighbour to park their car in the drive."

Well, yes, but if I've turned off all the utilities what is going to work the lights?

A distinct lack of joined up thinking which does not inspire confidence in the rest of the site.

Cheers

Dave R

Reply to
David
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They mean one of or the other.

Most will want the main water off (to limit damage if a pipe goes) - sometimes just in the winter months.

Some will want the central heating set to run to 10C or 15C minumum - or drain down - or just water off.

That is a good idea - and a CCTV if you can leave some internet access present is a nice idea, but the latter will not help with the insurance, just your peace of mind.

I am not aware of any police that asks you to turn off the power, having had a house in probate.

No - it's journalistic twaddle.

"Fresh" is good, TowerGate is OK. Some regular companies might offer it too.

Watch out for them wanting all windows to be lockable AND locked - and for door locks to meet the usual BS standards.

Reply to
Tim Watts

So don't look at a comparison website, which has probably lumpoed together conditions from a multiplcity of policies. Look at actual policies. But you may not like the conditions in some of them. Eg we rejected this one when helpinmg someone do a sale as it semed to be on commission from the energy companies:sale for someone

"Section 1 ? Buildings and Section 2 ? Contents exclude peril 6 Escape of Water unless the water, gas and electricity supplies are turned off at the mains (and for the period November to March inclusive all water tanks, pipes and apparatus are drained) unless required to operate an automatically operated central heating system used to maintain a minimum temperature of 58°F (15°C) at all times"

Reply to
Robin

+1 to all that. When my mother died, I notified her insurance company (Towergate), and the requirements for an empty property weren't particularly onerous: all windows and doors locked and keys in a secure place (I have them all on one ring, that I take away when I leave); outside door locks to comply with BSxyz123, thermostat set to 15C over the winter months; water turned off; visit every week. Nothing about draining the system AIR. The c/h doesn't need mains water turned on to run. Gas is off in the summer. It has a burglar alarm system, but not maintained by the installer. I've set up table lamps in various rooms, a radio, and one of those flickering LED TV simulators, all on time switches. All items of value removed (that didn't take much doing!), so only furniture and bric-a-brac remained. If it got nicked, it would have been any loss. Probably to my advantage actually, as it would have saved having to get it cleared. I'd changed the insurance to cover only the property, not the contents. Even if someone broke in and stripped out all the plumbing and wiring, I wouldn't mind as it's all got to come out anyway fairly soon during a complete modernisation. I visit once a week to put a fresh bunch of flowers in the window, change the positions of the curtains and clear the post (circulars, mostly). The house was emptied last week so there's nothing in it at all now anyway, but I'll still visit weekly just to keep the garden from becoming a jungle.
Reply to
Chris Hogg

Like others said, this is a merger of various policies.

A few years ago, we used Instasure (IIRC). They required water turned off and heating running at 16C over winter, or full drain down, or they wouldn't cover burst pipe damage. ISTR we ignored this -- turned the water off but left heating running at 10C, and figured I would fix any burst pipes anyway. Didn't require other services switched off, nor any max gap between visits.

They are really for holiday homes and let homes (and can include loss of rental income insurance if you are letting). They were actually cheaper than the regular buildings insurance that was in place before.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

A few months ago we had a similar problem - new build house, would be empty for a month or two between exchange of contracts and completion, and the really difficult one, not then in the Royal Mail postcode database [1]. Our then-current insurers refused due to lack of postcode alone. Other insurers were difficult to identify.

We went with a broker who found an acceptable policy.

I would happily tell you which broker but as I do have some sort of distant relationship, won't in public to avoid spamming.

[1] A postcode had been assigned but not added to the PAF - and even if added immediately, would not have appeared to insurers until they update their PAFs.
Reply to
polygonum

You could try

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and SP Household (aka Smith and Pinching.)

Reply to
Michael Chare

In message , Tim Watts writes

Nothing to add except to say that I too have found Towergate to be extremely helpful when trying to insure a non standard risk.

Michael Jones, Towergate?Insurance, 0330 123 332

No connection etc.

Reply to
Graeme

I can add to that that Fresh! are very good if you have something weird

- they take everything to the underwriters and give you a premium based on it. The underwirters seem to apply a certain amount of common sense.

Many insurers, even "special risk" ones, jam up if you can't tick the boxes on their crib sheet.

Reply to
Tim Watts

Good luck with that.

I'll repeat my regular rant about Admiral. When my M-I-L had a stroke & had to go into a home, I called to tell them her house would now be empty and they cancelled the insurance on the spot. Then and there. Not even 48 hours to find another insurance. The arse-hole on the 'phone was quite clear; we don't insure empty properties and the single largest asset you have ever owned is now uninsured as of this moment. I hope they all die of rectal cancer.

I can't recall who we found to insure it, but (i) it wasn't cheap & (ii) they too had all these amusing conditions.

Reply to
Huge

Presumably you also had to answer "yes" to the standard question "have you ever had insurance cancelled?"

Reply to
Andy Burns

Technically he didn't - the estate did. Probably :)

Reply to
Tim Watts

Er.. no, not if MiL went into a home but carried on living:) But it would usually MiL as owner who had the insurance cancelled - and she who had to insure it (even if Huge or another acted on her behalf).

That said, it's not my experience with a couple of insurers who simply treated it as an unoccupied property. (Tip: you can in some circs buy some time if you can truthfully state the person is going in for "respite care" for a month or so. Some care homes will in any event want a month or so to see if the person suits before signing a long-term contract.)

Reply to
Robin

Nope. I haven't ever had insurance cancelled, and it's no longer problem for my M-I-L since she's dead.

And I note you deleted the my comments about Admiral, so I'll repeat them; they're scum.

Reply to
Huge

Precisely.

I imagine I explained in full to the new insurers - I don't lie to insurance companies, especially when there are potentially 7 figure sums at stake.

Reply to
Huge

Weekly visits could be an issue as we live about 3 hours away from the property.

Just over 150 miles each way. 10 gallons of fuel at 30 mpg (I wish). Say 46 litres of fuel at £1.10 per litre. Around £50 of fuel for the round trip; bad day could be £60+.

Weekly visits suddenly add up to £200 - £250 a month just in fuel, disregarding any price put on personal time. 6 hours travel is almost a full working day.

£250 for 3 months insurance with no need for us to visit suddenly seems a bargain. :-(

Cheers

Dave R

Reply to
David

Thanks for the suggestions.

As usual, it is a nightmare.

We are selling a property we used to live in and which has been rented for some years which is about 3 hours drive away. We have accepted an offer but this means little until we get to exchange of contracts (a previous offer lapsed when the chain broke). We could need cover for as little as 6 weeks or for several months. At some point we might have to sigh and rent it out again. So no fixed time scale.

Our current insurers, NFU, want about £300 for the rest of the year and will refund. However they only cover fire. We would need storm damage and break ins covered at a minimum.

Towergate want just over £821 for a year for standard cover. They offer policies for less than a year, but with no refund. For a full year policy they will retain 50% of the full year policy on cancellation. [Just discovered that there is a branch of 4Counties (Towergate brand name) within striking distance.]

Fresh! come in a lot cheaper but they seem to be an outfit that charges for virtually everything including using oxygen. Lots of mumble mumble £50 bits in their quote process. Also, I have an email confirming the quote with a reference number but I can't find out how to retrieve it. Just used web chat and this confirmed that you can't go back and look at a saved quote, you have to phone them to discuss it. Feels like pressure sales tactics to me. This rules them out for the moment. Noted that there are strong recommendations from NG members. I may give them a ring given that S&P and Intasure seem to be phone only as well.

Now trying Vasek again. They (like Towergate) do let you retrieve a quote. Ummm.....I note that I also saved a PDF of the quote. They only cover for fire, lightning, earthquake or explosion. Gurph. Non-working link to Ts&Cs. Doesn't work with a "www." in front of the domain name. They, at least, refund on cancellation minus the set up fee (not listed - looks like "up to £25" from further down) and £20 administration. Possible £15 charge for policy amendments mid term. O.K. - they look a reasonable firm but the cover is no better than our current policy offer.

S&P - no on line quote engine. May call them later.

Instasure shows up on Google but no web site. Intasure is there, though. They also seem to be phone only so I may have to revise my bias against having to phone up when...well...Internet!

Cheers

Dave R

Reply to
David

Can't you get a neighbout to pop in? That's what we did with my MIL's house, which was an hour's drive away.

Reply to
Huge

They all seem to do this. Can you bribe a neighbour to do that?

Reply to
Tim Watts

I had this with a probate job up for sale.

I asked the Estate Agent to do that (it was literally round the corner and I asked before I signed them up).

Reply to
Tim Watts

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