OT: Gas supplier using wrong switching readings

[AnthonyL]

Why? I'm paying the new supplier exactly what I am using with them.

[AnthonyL]

They've both got the same date stamped photo.

How are they going to know what the reading was if they send a meter reading man round 3 months after the switch?

All far too complicated.

[michael adams]

You don't need to.

The outgoing and incoming company used the same changeover figure.

Basically if you've been sending in accurate readings, then the first supplier will know that you've already paid the new supplier for the "lost" 200 units. And will recover the cost from them.

As a customer you may win or lose on the price differential on the lost/double counted units which may be reflected in a subsequent bill.

But as has been said, sending in fabricated readings could be seen as amounting to fraud. The fact that you did this simply to avoid being double billed on the "lost" 200 units, when this is unlikely to happen for the reasons given is no real defence. At the moment you're in possession of 200 undeclared "free" units

As has been said you will need to bring your fabricated reading closer to the actual readings without drawing too much suspicion on yourself in respect of a drastically changed usage pattern. Although its rather surprising this wasn't already flagged up when the agreed changeover figure was 200 smaller than it should have been.

michael adams

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[Robin]

I may have missed that if you told us before that they'd asked for a photo after they'd had your reading. That suggests they doubted it.

That puzzles me because:

a. AIUI Ofgem require the *new* supplier to get a reading which is used to both open the new account and close the old, and

b. as already posted, there is then a processes to decide the reading both old and new suppliers are to use if not, or if it doesn't pass validation

I think it might help if you told us:

a. what reading you gave your old supplier, and when b. what reading you gave your new supplier, and when c. what "changeover" reading your old supplier provided, when

[AnthonyL]

I'll check that out with the new supplier. I have no problem with doing that if indeed it works out as you say.

But the new supplier knows what the real reading is. I don't see myself ending up in jail over this.

The outgoing supplier makes an estimate and direct debit bills proportionately during the year. They do not ask for intermediate readings.

[AnthonyL]

Bl**dy photoshop

I provided them both the same reading and the same photo on the day prior to the declared switch date.

200 cu ft less than the reading which was used by the new supplier about a week after the declared switch date and effectively when my account was opened to me.

This is what I got on the day before the switch date from the incoming supplier after I had sent them the real reading:

"Good afternoon.

Thank you for providing this read! We do automatically set the billing date to be the exact same for both your gas and electricity supply, so we will request meter reads on the same date of each month.

If you have any further queries, please don't hesitate to contact us via email or on the phone number below."

For clarity I already have electricity with the new supplier and I had asked for confirmation that the billing dates for both would be the same. Despite the above assurance I have been billed for gas and electricity on different dates.

I don't trust that anyone in customer services knows what's going on.

[Andy Burns]

Because they're not asking how much you've used, they're asking what total the meter shows ...

[michael adams]

I can't see how. Its understandable that you may been sending in "adjusted readings" to the new supplier to reflect the fact that the changeover figure was wrong but I can't see how the new supplier can be aware of this unless you tell them.

Neither do I *. But the fact remains that when the supplier asks you to supply a meter reading, its accepted that that's what meant by both parties. The figures actually showing on the meter. Not figures the customer may regard as being a more true reflection of their actual usage. There's no real point in any case as they're going to see the meter with the actual figures at some point, unless you're intent on doing a runner.

Its maybe this last possibility that they're most concerned with. A customer repeatedly sending in low readings, and lumbering whoever inherits that supply with a huge bill.

Although you've got a good excuse as far as excuses go, this is probably contrary to their T&C's. As is mistakenly entering a zero instaed of a capital "O" when entering a vehicle reg on some parking machines and getting lumbered with a ?60 "fee".

michael adams

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[AnthonyL]

You seem to be missing my statement that I sent photographic evidence to both suppliers at the same time immediately prior to the switch, receipt of which they both acknowledged and both chose to ignore.

That sort of leaves me in a limbo.

At some stage or another 200 cu ft of gas is going to be paid, it is just a question of who to and when and for that one or both of them will need to get their act together.

[Andy Burns]

And given that they refused your reading (for whatever reason) you should accept the reading they have substituted

It leaves you better off ... you pay the old more expensive supplier for

200 units less of gas, and the new cheaper supplier for 200 units more of gas. Whether (or how) the two suppliers square the difference between themselves is up to them.

[AnthonyL]

You have more faith in their faltering systems than I do. I can still see me getting charged twice and having to fight to get it back.

[Andy Burns]

Because OFGEM are there to see you right, if it comes to that, and if it does then having to explain "massaged" readings could prove awkward.

[Jock Green]

They are just sending him round to check that the reading you posted the photo of isn't fakes. In other words that the reading he sees in person is higher by your normal consumption than the reading shown in the photo.

[Robin]

You need to ask your new supplier why they did not use the reading you gave them and the source of the figure they have used.

And - as others have said - you need to be honest about your current reading.

[Tufnell Park]

Not really, i have changed supplier many times and they have never used my readings nor have they sent anyone out to read the meter, the old supplier usually gives the new one a 'deemed reading' which they then both use as the changeover reading. Crazy but that is the system.

IIMSS you have complicated the issue by giving an invented reading, most energy customers ignore reading requests and the system is designed to cater for this by estimated or deemed readings.

Simples......

[michael adams]

How can they possibly do that ?

You've been using the one meter throughout the whole process.

The two suppliers between them will charge you for consecutive readings on the one meter during the changeover.

So they both will know for the sake of example that "A" will charge you for the readings from say 2026 to 2089 (the changeover reading) and that "B" will charge you for the readings say

2089 to 2152.

As they both know that you've already been charged for all usage on ether side and including the changeover reading, how could either of them attempt to double charge you ?

michael adams

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[AnthonyL]

I had a look on their website for a clear explanation of what the current procedure is. There's plenty about consultations for a new "one day" switch to overcome the current cumbersome and unwieldy (or words to that effect) system but I couldn't find what the system was.

[AnthonyL]

If I give my current supplier the reading of 2152 I will immediately be billed 2026 to 2152.

Meanwhile when the outgoing supplier wakes up to fact that I've given them the changeover reading of 2089 they will bill me for 2026 to

2089.

Everyone is saying it shouldn't happen. But then everyone is saying the incoming supplier should have used my 2089 reading and told the outgoing supplier accordingly. Instead the incoming supplier has told me they have to use the outgoing supplier's figure of 2026.

So I don't think either of them know what they are doing and I'll hang on to my money until they sort themselves out. Easier than having to grasp it back from one or the other which is the situation I envisage.

Of course I'd get any double payment back on the threat of OFGEM. Don't see why I should have to risk a fight.

[AnthonyL]

Indeed it would be if both suppliers hadn't specifically asked for readings.

Weird....

[michael adams]

No they won't. Both suppliers accept the fact that there can only ever be *one" changeover figure.

And whichever of the two suppliers bills you first on the basis of that

*one* changeover figure the other supplier has no choice to accept it as well. If they want to dispute the changeover figure and make any necessary adjustments then that's strictly between them, not with you the customer.

There is only one meter. And as far as anyone is concerned including both suppliers you have paid for all the gas used between 2026 and 2152.

How could anyone seriously suggest otherwise ?

The other business about you sending in made-up readings is entirely another matter.

michael adams

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