OT: Energy bills for the elderly?

[papadeltasierra]

Looking for some collective knowledge here. My elderly neighbour has the o= ther side of the semi and his gas & electric bills are terrible. He's lite= rally using twice as much gas and electric as I am. The question is "is th= is normal"?

Clearly we're comparing apples and pears here - family of four where both a= dults work and the house is kept relatively cool vs a single elderly gentle= man who keeps his house warmer. But having talked to him and wandered arou= nd his house, it's hard to see that he really is using this much more energ= y. For example our washing machine runs every night and often during the d= ay too and we have an electric cooker. He washes far less and has a gas co= oker; but he still uses twice as much electricity.

Aside - ignore insulation etc - these are flat-roofed 1920s semis, neither = of us have much insulation and it's very hard to add any more.

So, from your experiences with elderly friends and relatives, is this dispa= rity common?

Thanks, Paul DS.

[Scott M]

My mother, on her own, can burn her way through twice[1] as much water, electric and gas as necessary. And all the time bemoaning that she hardly uses any.

Scott

[1] Quite literally.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Same across my family. My bills are a tiny fraction of all other family members. I know my home automation has a lot to do with this.

Did manage to get parents to install CWI last year (which was free), but it's too soon to know how much difference that made. Also fitted some TRVs.

Popped in to check another family member's home last weekend when they were away, only to find the heating on 24x7, sigh.

[Fredxx]

other side of the semi and his gas & electric bills are terrible. He's literally using twice as much gas and electric as I am. The question is "is this normal"?

adults work and the house is kept relatively cool vs a single elderly gentleman who keeps his house warmer. But having talked to him and wandered around his house, it's hard to see that he really is using this much more energy. For example our washing machine runs every night and often during the day too and we have an electric cooker. He washes far less and has a gas cooker; but he still uses twice as much electricity.

us have much insulation and it's very hard to add any more.

You are away at work/commute for up to 10 hours a day, and only have heat for 2 hours in the morning an 6 hours in the evening with some background heat overnight.

When you're all at home you'll all be each giving off 100W or more of heat, ie 400W vs his 100W.

Overall I'm not entirely surprised.

I might be more concerned of his electric meter. Have you got access to an energy monitor to double check? Is his hot water by immersion heater? Has he inadvertently got it turned on?

[mogga]

side of the semi and his gas & electric bills are terrible. He's literally using twice as much gas and electric as I am. The question is "is this normal"?

adults work and the house is kept relatively cool vs a single elderly gentleman who keeps his house warmer. But having talked to him and wandered around his house, it's hard to see that he really is using this much more energy. For example our washing machine runs every night and often during the day too and we have an electric cooker. He washes far less and has a gas cooker; but he still uses twice as much electricity.

us have much insulation and it's very hard to add any more.

Turn everything off and see whether the meter still goes round. Does he have an old fridge and freezer? If they've not been defrosted recently - or are very old - they might be using more.

Lightbulbs. What sort does he have?

[Owain]

< He's literally using twice as much gas and electric as I am.

Using twice as much kWh, or paying twice as much =A3?

If he's on a standard tariff paying monthly in cash he will be paying more than on a direct debit.

For gas it's worth checking if the meter records in cubic feet that he's not being billed in cubic metres.

Owain

[Huge]

My MIL uses a tiny fraction of what we do. But then, her house is always dark and cold.

[js.b1]

South facing vs North facing is 2oC warmer overcast, 4-6oC warmer solar. Fl= ue ventilation can be a very significant factor too if applicable.

If you run a gas fire with GCH the flue convection of the gas fire can make= the GCH run a lot more to compensate for the cold air drawn in (particular= ly if an open chimney pot & no restrictor on the gas fire, which may be nee= ded depending on chimney location, prevailing wind etc).

Avg gas+elec is circa =A31280-1350 in the UK, terraced 850-1050, semi 1250,= detached 1750 with neurotic female & fine arts diploma controlling the the= rmostat.

[Dave Liquorice]

Both well worth checking, the "wrong" tariff (gas or electric) could easily double the bill(s). If the neighbour has old bills work out the annual comsuption and plug that into one of comparison sites. The best deals are had with paperless billing, monthly direct debit, which may no= t suit an elderly person but you should be able to better a "standard" tariff.

Space heating is what gobbles up energy, closely followed by "small" loads that are on for long periods like lights if incandescant. I'd be wary about changing incandescant to CFL's in the home of an elderly person unless I could ensure that the lighting level was maintained.

[Scion]

js.b1 spake thus:

Surely north facing is just south facing with access from the back?

[js.b1]

I mean south facing w.r.t. windows & solar gain.

Even on a cold autumnal day, a room at 20.2oC will hit 23.1oC within half an hour once it goes from overcast to direct sunshine. In summer of course the flip side is you nearly need air conditioning as 25oC outside becomes 32-36oC inside.

[js.b1]

Wrong tarrif has probably cost many pensioners "a warm winter". Indeed, the= =A3300-400/yr is probably swallowed up by it as welfare for energy compani= es if they do not switch annually.

Check no electric towel rail left on! They REALLY push a bill up a long way if run excessively. MEG elements are = good in this regard re clear LED and can be set 30 37.5 45 52.5 60oC, with = a good range of wattages.

20W CFL are ok, even in a hall, despite their slow warm up time. However fo= r a hall I would be tempted to fit a 3W LED downlight (warm white) even if = it is left on 24/7 as soon dark halls benefit from it.

Not sure what happened to my other post.

[Martin Brown]

And if he is still with the original geographic supplier most likely being ripped off by nominal rate + 30%. First change of supplier works! My parents stubbornly refuse to change energy suppliers :(

Incidentally do nPower's bills still require a PhD and a super computer to interpret them or have they finally improved?

Or that they haven't added a zero on the wrong end of a meter reading (but that tends to give you a bill of national debt proportions). Happens to our village hall from time to time as the billing system thinks it has got a 6 digit meter and the actual unit has 5 digits.

Worth putting a real time clip on electricity monitor Owl on to see whether the problem is insanely high base load or electric fires on in every room and an ambient temperature pushing 28C or higher.

The energy cost for every extra 1C above ambient is non-trivial.

[Owain]

OTOH, CFLs fail gradually and get flickery, whereas incandescent fail suddenly and can result in falls.

Owain

[Andrew Gabriel]

Incandescents gradually dim throughout life too. Incandescents stop working at end of life, whereas CFLs often carry on running well after end of life, well after they should have been replaced.

[jgharston]

Usually solved by having a light at both the top and the bottom of the stairs, desklamp/bedlamp, etc. in rooms, etc.

Note to self: must remember to replace the three dead lights in the roofspace!

JGH

[harry]

he other side of the semi and his gas & electric bills are terrible. =A0He'= s literally using twice as much gas and electric as I am. =A0The question i= s "is this normal"?

adults work and the house is kept relatively cool vs a single elderly gent= leman who keeps his house warmer. =A0But having talked to him and wandered = around his house, it's hard to see that he really is using this much more e= nergy. =A0For example our washing machine runs every night and often during= the day too and we have an electric cooker. =A0He washes far less and has = a gas cooker; but he still uses twice as much electricity.

r of us have much insulation and it's very hard to add any more.

parity common?

Has he got a condensing gas boiler & proper controls?

[tony sayer]

And that is a big downfall for them that misguided loyalty. We swap them over as soon as we can if we find someone just that bit cheaper after all the leccy and gas are the same .. some older people have it in mind that as its cheaper then it won't be as good;!....

[ARW]

The CWI and the TRVs probably knocked 30% off my heating bill (the gable end of the house faces Emley Moor)

And I got another 20% reduction when the wife left (she used to open the window if the room was too warm)

Oh dear. Any chance that you can educate them?

[Owain]

Gas bill went up a bit when the ex left though ;-)

Owain